Rutschman to Norfolk

[accinfo]

2 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Not adding him to the 40 is not just a matter of there being space on the 40.

If he is added to the 40, and there is a work stoppage -- Adley will be sitting on his butt on April 1.

If he's not on the 40, and there is a work stoppage -- Adley will be playing for the Tides on April 1, gaining more experience, more at bats.   Probably catching Grayson Rodriguez and maybe DL Hall and Baumann.

These are the best reasons for him not to be here now.  Thanks for making this point.  

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

It's a strawman because it sets up a false choice.  The argument assumes that if you support keeping AR down in 2021 it automatically means that you must, or at least should, support keeping him down in future years.  That is a false argument.

Rutschman started 2021 with a handful of games in the Gulf Coast and South Atlantic Leagues.  [Side note:  I hate what MLB has done to the names of the minor leagues.]  So giving him one full season in the minor leagues is not an outrageous proposition.  And given the current CBA, having him play for 3 weeks or so at AAA in 2022, makes sense.  Also, it's not as if the Orioles and Rutschman are an isolated case.  So, it's possible to reasonably support keeping AR down for 2021.  Another argument is the fact that he does not need to be protected on from the Rule 5 draft and with the current CBA expiring after this season, adding him to the 40 man now would mean that he couldn't play in Norfolk next season if the season is delayed by a work stoppage.

However, after 2021, AR will have that full season under his belt, the Orioles will have retained that extra year of service time, and upon his promotion a few weeks into the 2022 season, the Orioles will be that much better prepared to take a step forward.

Hopefully, Grayson Rodriguez will join him in Norfolk soon and we'll see them both in Baltimore at some point next year.

First of all, the new CBA could make this decision even dumber and secondly, the argument of most people to leave him down has nothing to do with the CBA.

 

It is all based around the idea of not wasting a year when we aren't any good.  If THAT is the argument (and it is for most people), questioning why even bring him up in 2022 is an extremely valid question to ask those who have that as the foundation for their argument.

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

I like the idea of age but I think it should be 27 for high schoolers and 28 for college players. This way they have an opportunity for Free agency as they are entering their prime. 

That’s too early.   The median age for a player debut is 24.   Even assuming it would shorten by a year if you changed the FA rules, you’d be having the average player reaching free agency after 4-5 years of service.   Owners aren’t going to agree to that drastic a change.   

[NCRaven]

Sports Guy, I think sucking in 2021 is only one small piece of the argument, at least for me.  In fact, I don't believe it's even mentioned in my posts, above.  I've outlined several others reasons for having AR spend 2021 in the minors.  Feel free to ignore them as you wish.  I can only note my own thoughts, not those of unspecified "most people."

[Can_of_corn]

29 minutes ago, Frobby said:

1.  Subject to debate.  
2.  Not as pronounced as for 2022/29.

1.  Nebulous criteria that can be used to explain all sorts of behavior.

Agree with SG naturally.

My guess is that it's like steroids, spider tack and sign stealing.  Folks are OK with gaming these kids clocks a little but when it becomes obvious they don't have the stomach to really stick it to them.  As long as they can justify it to themselves it's fine.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, NCRaven said:

I think sucking in 2021 is only one small piece of the argument, at least for me.  In fact, I don't believe it's even mentioned in my posts, above.  I've outlined several others reasons for having AR spend 2021 in the minors.  Feel free to ignore them as you wish.  I can only note my own thoughts, not those of unspecified "most people."

But YOU are the one saying its a straw man argument.  When people ask the question, why bring him up in 2022 if the idea is to not waste his service time on bad years, they aren't asking you that question because that isn't your reasoning.

So, since you decided to lend your voice and call the argument a straw man, its only fair for you to actually address the argument in the manor of which that question is being asked.  You want to look at through your own little vacuum and that's wrong.

[Can_of_corn]

2 hours ago, interloper said:

Because I'm not an idiot, friend. Next year is the latest he should be brought up or you're wasting his best baseball years. 

First off you don't know when his best baseball years are.   Maybe this season would have been one of his "best baseball years"?

Secondly, who cares if they are?  The O's aren't contending next year even if AR puts up an 8 win season.   If you concern is about maximizing value for the team in the year they are most likely to be competitive that's what you should do.

 

[NCRaven]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

But YOU are the one saying its a straw man argument.  When people ask the question, why bring him up in 2022 if the idea is to not waste his service time on bad years, they aren't asking you that question because that isn't your reasoning.

So, since you decided to lend your voice and call the argument a straw man, its only fair for you to actually address the argument in the manor of which that question is being asked.  You want to look at through your own little vacuum and that's wrong.

Yes I did.  No you didn't.

Yes I did.  No you didn't.

My little sister wasn't this bad 50 years ago.

 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

1.  Nebulous criteria that can be used to explain all sorts of behavior.

Agree with SG naturally.

My guess is that it's like steroids, spider tack and sign stealing.  Folks are OK with gaming these kids clocks a little but when it becomes obvious they don't have the stomach to really stick it to them.  As long as they can justify it to themselves it's fine.

Like I’ve said before, cops don’t pull people over for going 5 mph over the speed limit, but when it’s 25 mph, they do.   And in Adley’s case, I think there’s plenty of reason to doubt if he’s ready for the majors right now and that keeping him in the minors is hindering his development in some way.   To me there’s plenty of evidence that he’s still learning stuff at the MiL level and is better off being down there this year from a developmental standpoint.  

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Like I’ve said before, cops don’t pull people over for going 5 mph over the speed limit, but when it’s 25 mph, they do.   And in Adley’s case, I think there’s plenty of reason to doubt if he’s ready for the majors right now and that keeping him in the minors is hindering his development in some way.   To me there’s plenty of evidence that he’s still learning stuff at the MiL level and is better off being down there this year from a developmental standpoint.  

I got pulled over by an MP once for doing 8 in a 5.

My stance is clear and I think less of everyone that thinks screwing this kid out of millions is acceptable.  Folks wouldn't be on board if he was in another line of work.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I got pulled over by an MP once for doing 8 in a 5.

My stance is clear and I think less of everyone that thinks screwing this kid out of millions is acceptable.  Folks wouldn't be on board if he was in another line of work.

If the rule was a player drafted out of college is a FA after age 28, everyone would be saying he should be up now.

It is 100% about service time.  There is absolutely no other reason.  This whole stuff about him not being ready is just a lie to justify it.

[SteveA]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

If the rule was a player drafted out of college is a FA after age 28, everyone would be saying he should be up now.

It is 100% about service time.  There is absolutely no other reason.  This whole stuff about him not being ready is just a lie to justify it.

What about the fact that keeping him off the 40 man roster means he can play in the minors during a prolonged work stoppage, if there is one?

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

If the rule was a player drafted out of college is a FA after age 28, everyone would be saying he should be up now.

It is 100% about service time.  There is absolutely no other reason.  This whole stuff about him not being ready is just a lie to justify it.

Yeah that .271 BA in AA just screams to me that he belongs in the majors right this minute.  I’m overwhelmed that he has the 14th best OPS in the AA Northeast.

Look, he’s the no. 1 prospect in baseball, a good defensive catcher and catchers don’t have to hit as well as players at most other positions to have value.   I get all that.   I still say I haven’t seen anything that screams to me that he’s obviously ready for the majors.   It was way more obvious with Wieters.   

[Sports Guy]

Just now, SteveA said:

What about the fact that keeping him off the 40 man roster means he can play in the minors during a prolonged work stoppage, if there is one?

I would have rather seen him get 250-300 ML last bats than worry about that.  Im not overly concerned that a work stoppage occurs or lasts that long for it to really matter.

 

And again, I think this idea is something very few people have in their minds.  This has nothing to do with (most) people not wanting him up.

[NCRaven]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

If

You are right about your IF.  But it's a meaningless distinction.  The rules say guaranteed contracts are paid even if Chris Davis has basically sucked since day one.  Players and teams both follow the rules as written.  Your imaginary rules don't count in the real world of negotiated contracts.