Orioles set 28-man openings day roster

[Big Mac]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

Lol. What a ridiculous statement. It is Elias and his staff's job to evaluate the talent they have. Not mine, not yours, not everyone else but him and his scouts. 

The fact that they let go a guy who did what he did last year, a year in which this team knew they needed guys to eat innings tells me there was something wrong with the process. 

He wasn't kept over the guys you listed above, he was kept over the Spenser Watckins and Konner Whateverhislastnameisbecausehedoesntmatter's of the world. The team's system said that Plutko would be a better pitcher at the major league level than Rogers who they released from AAA before he had a chance to really pitch after his recovery from TJ in 2019. 

I don't care whether Rogers continues his success this year or not, the fact is the Orioles used man, many pitchers last year that was all clearly deficient to Rogers at the major league level.

i could care less if I didn't see it, or you didn't see it because none of have the statcast data on the movement of pitches, velocity, and spinrates that the Orioles had.

If that doesn't bother you that the team gave him away by releasing him while they kept Thomas Eshelman and gave a start to Mickey Jannis (A guy who wasn't even a good AA knuckleballer) then that's on you, but call grasping at straws because that's freaking disrespectful. 

I'll give Elias and his crew credit when they deserve and I'm going call them out on their mistakes. Losing Rogers for nothing and not protecting Zach Popp were too unforced errors and makes me question those who are making these evaluations.  

 

Agree to disagree I guess.  I did not mean any disrespect and I don't view saying something is "grasping at straws" is disrespectful.

This is a message board and people disagree.  I don't see the need to get defensive when people disagree with you, people on here appreciate the work you put in and value your insights even if they don't necessarily agree with every single view you have.

[Tony-OH]

14 minutes ago, Big Mac said:

Agree to disagree I guess.  I did not mean any disrespect and I don't view saying something is "grasping at straws" is disrespectful.

This is a message board and people disagree.  I don't see the need to get defensive when people disagree with you, people on here appreciate the work you put in and value your insights even if they don't necessarily agree with every single view you have.

I'm fine with disagreeing, but when you say someone is grasping at straws it indicates that they really haven't thought it through. 

If anything, just shrugging your shoulders and saying, "Well, how could anyone know?" is kinda not looking at the full picture. It literally is the organization's job to make those evaluations. They literally choose a multitude of pitchers over Rogers who were terrible in a year when every organizations was dying for AAAA arms to try and eat innings. 

I really don't even know how you can build a case that suggest anything other than this was an evaluation failure by the organization. Regardless of whether Rogers duplicates his success (doubtful though the changeup numbers are actually very good), releasing him like he was awful last year was clearly a mistake. 

 

[SteveA]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

Lol. What a ridiculous statement. It is Elias and his staff's job to evaluate the talent they have. Not mine, not yours, not everyone else but him and his scouts. 

The fact that they let go a guy who did what he did last year, a year in which this team knew they needed guys to eat innings tells me there was something wrong with the process. 

He wasn't kept over the guys you listed above, he was kept over the Spenser Watckins and Konner Whateverhislastnameisbecausehedoesntmatter's of the world. The team's system said that Plutko would be a better pitcher at the major league level than Rogers who they released from AAA before he had a chance to really pitch after his recovery from TJ in 2019. 

I don't care whether Rogers continues his success this year or not, the fact is the Orioles used many, many pitchers last year that was all clearly deficient to Rogers at the major league level.

i could care less if I didn't see it, or you didn't see it because none of us have the statcast data on the movement of pitches, velocity, and spinrates that the Orioles had.

If that doesn't bother you that the team gave him away by releasing him while they kept Thomas Eshelman and gave a start to Mickey Jannis (A guy who wasn't even a good AA knuckleballer) then that's on you.

I'll give Elias and his crew credit when they deserve and I'm going call them out on their mistakes. Losing Rogers for nothing and not protecting Zach Popp were too unforced errors and makes me question those who are making these evaluations.  

 

They also kept Rogers on the 40 man for over a year, taking up a spot, while he recovered from TJ surgery.   That spot could have gone to someone else.   And then he recovers, pitches 17 [bad] innings in Norfolk, and THEN they cut bait.

Didn't make sense.

No, I wasn't criticizing them when at the time he was cut, so this is hindsight.   But I do remember thinking it odd that they kept him through his recovery and then cut him, and at the time they cut him the 40 man roster was littered with guys like Jannis, Waddell, etc.

[glenn__davis]

Honestly they have run so many obviously lousy pitchers out there that you have to wonder if it was intentional.  Obviously they're not going to say that they're purposely trying to sabotage the W/L record but....

[Tony-OH]

12 minutes ago, SteveA said:

They also kept Rogers on the 40 man for over a year, taking up a spot, while he recovered from TJ surgery.   That spot could have gone to someone else.   And then he recovers, pitches 17 [bad] innings in Norfolk, and THEN they cut bait.

Didn't make sense.

No, I wasn't criticizing them when at the time he was cut, so this is hindsight.   But I do remember thinking it odd that they kept him through his recovery and then cut him, and at the time they cut him the 40 man roster was littered with guys like Jannis, Waddell, etc.

Yeah, it just seemed odd all around. Now, I'll admit, I was never much on him from a naked scouting eye but I really didn't see him after coming back from surgery. They just seemed to bury him quickly and I assumed the stuff was gone. 

If people remember I did a stuff comparison of Rogers, Akins, Zimmerman and Lowther I believe at the end of last year and even I was surprised at how much better his changeup was then the other three. 

But the real kicked was they gave him up in a year when they knew they were going to need innings eaters. that was the one thing he really was pre-surgery, at least be today's minor league standards.

[Moose Milligan]

12 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

Honestly they have run so many obviously lousy pitchers out there that you have to wonder if it was intentional.  Obviously they're not going to say that they're purposely trying to sabotage the W/L record but....

Nothing wrong with trying to get the best odds for the #1 draft pick ping pong ball.

It's just going to be another hard team to watch this year.  IMO, it's really all about AR, G-Rod and maybe DL Hall if he can crack the bigs.  It's about Mullins if he can come close to what he did last year, to see if Mountcastle can increase plate discipline and if Mancini can get back to 2019 levels (or traded).  And, of course, it's about what minor leaguers step up and make improvements, too.

I honestly don't care about the rest.  I'm prepared for continued disappointment from our Quad-A type arms.  

But go ahead, Elias, try to get that #1 pick next year, too.

[SteveA]

10 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

Honestly they have run so many obviously lousy pitchers out there that you have to wonder if it was intentional.  Obviously they're not going to say that they're purposely trying to sabotage the W/L record but....

I think what was intentional was that, coming off the Covid year where MLB only played 60 games and there was no minor league ball, they knew it would be very hard to cover all the innings with what we had.   And they decided to go with quantity over quality.

They collected a ton of guys at Norfolk that weren't very good, on purpose, because they could bring a guy up, add him to the 40, pitch him for a while, then DFA him to make room for the next guy.   Most of the time he would go unclaimed and wind up back at Norfolk, but if he did get claimed (Evan Phillips for example), they didn't consider him much of a loss.  

There were over a dozen pitchers that they cycled through that way, a couple times bringing a guy back up who ahd come up, been DFAd, unclaimed, and had wound up back at Norfolk.  

Basically they had the first wave of minor leaguers (Akin, Kremer, Zimmerman, Lowther) that were going to get a shot last year, and if those guys couldn't do it, it was going to the collection of misfit toys from Norfolk.   Those young guys failed for the most part and we got a lot of the misfits.

I won't say they were TRYING to lose.   I think if Akin/Kremer/Zimm/Lowther had just had a mediocre amount of success (one did well enough to be a #4 starter, one did well enough to eat innings as a #5, and maybe one contributed in the bullpen) -- they wouldn't have had to resort to as many of the really bad guys from Norfolk.   And we easily might have won 8-10 more games than we did.

But that didn't happen, so the cycle of bringing guys like Knight, Watkins, Ellis, Wade, up one after the other went into effect.

[Dr. Unk]

22 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

They're still くだらない.