Gunnar Henderson 2022

[Bemorewins]

32 minutes ago, owknows said:

I'll take a perpetual contender/occasional series winner staffed by the best 5 years of any of Adley/Gunnar/Holliday/Beavers/Cowser/Mayo/Norby/Fabian to be perpetually restocked by players of similar capability.... over a team that gets mired in big contracts for the waning years of these players.

I can cheer for, enjoy, admire, and be a great fan of all of these players.. and happily let someone else pay for their down-slope. Particularly if the front office is competent enough to switch from tanking to trading as a means of keeping players of this caliber on the conveyor belt.

I hear you and understand where you are coming from.

I just look to models who have/are trying the approach you suggested like Oakland and Tampa and say to myself, there’s a reason that they don’t/didn’t have many fans.

Like it or not the majority of fans who are not die hards like us on this board. Cheer for people (their favorite players). Most fans who are not die hards are not going to take the time, nor do they have the interest in relearning a new roster every 3 years. 

We might, but most won’t. And I would hate to be good and irrelevant in terms of our place in the community.

Said another way, I would much rather be San Francisco than Tampa. Can’t we (the organization) do the right thing for just once so we can get a parade and hang a banner? Lol 

I’m in my early 40’s and would like to see 1 World Series before I die…lol

Edited September 3, 2022 by Bemorewins

[owknows]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Yep.  It is risky.

But I think the risk/reward is a lot better than it is for signing older established star players to large deals.

No doubt. Signing a player at peak performance guarantees that all of their contract will be post-peak years. For some players that may be a lot worse than others... But it is true for any player signed at their zenith.

Quote

If you don't want to do it at all, I think you risk having down periods where you don't hit on all your draft picks.

No matter what you aren't guaranteed success.

With the strategy that I'm proposing (trading the best players in early arb) you'd be more reliant on trades to restock than you would be the draft. But whether draft or trade... the front office better be damned good.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, owknows said:

No doubt. Signing a player at peak performance guarantees that all of their contract will be post-peak years. For some players that may be a lot worse than others... But it is true for any player signed at their zenith.

With the strategy that I'm proposing (trading the best players in early arb) you'd be more reliant on trades to restock than you would be the draft. But whether draft or trade... the front office better be damned good.

I don't think most players are going to bring that great a return for their arb 2 and 3 seasons, especially if you aren't trading in season very often.

[owknows]

3 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I hear you and understand where you are coming from.

I just look to models who have/are trying the approach you suggested like Oakland and Tampa and say to myself, there’s a reason that they don’t/didn’t have many fans.

Like it or not even majority of fans who are not due hardship like us on this board. Cheer for people (their favorite players). Most fans who are not die hards are not going to take the time, nor do they have the interest in relearning a new roster every 3 years. 

We might, but most won’t. And I would hate to be good and irrelevant in terms of our place in the community.

Said another way, I would much rather be San Francisco than Tampa. Can’t we (the organization) do the right thing for just once so we can get a parade and hang a banner? Lol 

I’m in my early 40’s and would like to see 1 World Series before I die…lol

Yeah... I understand the value of a Ripken-type of player or two to anchor a franchise... from a fan sentiment perspective it has a lot of enduring value.

But does it have MORE value than winning the series in dynastic fashion? I dunno.

I don't know that Oakland and Tampa have really sustained the strategy we're talking about here. They have both spent considerable treasure buying or keeping players. And neither have held the attention of their fan bases... even having done so.

Maybe it's about nostalgia... but maybe it's more about winning.

BTW... you'll get your series win soon.

[owknows]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think most players are going to bring that great a return for their arb 2 and 3 seasons, especially if you aren't trading in season very often.

Pretty sure both Adley and Gunnar will command several top 10's each, if traded mid arb2.

The question is, will the conveyor belt have enough talent to replace them by then?

For Gunnar... the  answer is probably yes. For Adley.. probably no.

Which is interesting... because I think Gunnar may ultimately be the better player... but Adley plays a tougher position to replace, all other things being equal.

[Bemorewins]

7 minutes ago, owknows said:

Yeah... I understand the value of a Ripken-type of player or two to anchor a franchise... from a fan sentiment perspective it has a lot of enduring value.

But does it have MORE value than winning the series in dynastic fashion? I dunno.

I don't know that Oakland and Tampa have really sustained the strategy we're talking about here. They have both spent considerable treasure buying or keeping players. And neither have held the attention of their fan bases... even having done so.

Maybe it's about nostalgia... but maybe it's more about winning.

BTW... you'll get your series win soon.

I hope so  

I know it’s an age old debate, but I believe the names on the back of the jersey to the value of a franchise as well as the numbers on the scoreboard.

People who love the Yanks come to watch a Judge play AND help see them win. People who love the Dodgers come to watch Keyshawn pitch AND help see them win. I’m not saying than any of our guys are those caliber of players. But I believe it’s a both/and situation and not an either/or.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I hope so  

I know it’s an age old debate, but I believe the names on the back of the jersey to the value of a franchise as well as the numbers on the scoreboard.

People who love the Yanks come to watch a Judge play AND help see them win. People who love the Dodgers come to watch Keyshawn pitch AND help see them win. I’m not saying than any of our guys are those caliber of players. But I believe it’s a both/and situation and not an either/or.

Judge's name isn't on the back of the jersey. 

[Bemorewins]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Judge's name isn't on the back of the jersey. 

Ok you got me there. But you get my point. The Yanks sell a bunch of 99 shirts none the less.

And as it comes to shirts, I haven’t gotten an O’s jersey since Machado. My kids haven’t asked me for any either. But I’m think about a #2 or #35.
 

For the first time in years I’m seeing a bunch of people wearing O’s hats and shirts around town.

[Gurgi]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Judge's name isn't on the back of the jersey. 

Yep you him there. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Bemorewins said:

Ok you got me there. But you get my point. The Yanks sell a bunch of 99 shirts none the less.

And as it comes to shirts, I haven’t gotten an O’s jersey since Machado. My kids haven’t asked me for any either. But I’m think about a #2 or #35.
 

For the first time in years I’m seeing a bunch of people wearing O’s hats and shirts around town.

If you couldn't tell from the emoticon I wasn't really trying for a gotcha.

Just thought it was funny you used a Yankee for your example.

[owknows]

6 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I hope so  

I know it’s an age old debate, but I believe the names on the back of the jersey to the value of a franchise as well as the numbers on the scoreboard.

People who love the Yanks come to watch a Judge play AND help see them win. People who love the Dodgers come to watch Keyshawn pitch AND help see them win. I’m not saying than any of our guys are those caliber of players. But I believe it’s a both/and situation and not an either/or.

Not to be a stickler... but Kershaw is on a 1 year contract with the Dodgers...  and Judge is on a 1 year contract with the Yankees.

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, owknows said:

Not to be a stickler... but Kershaw is on a 1 year contract with the Dodgers...  and Judge is on a 1 year contract with the Yankees.

Kershaw is nearing the end. But I don’t think there as a good chance the Yanks let Judge leave. Right now he is too important to their franchise. Without him they will struggle to make a 3rd wildcard. And there are no near equivalent bats on the market for them to buy. 

[joelala]

5 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Caramel, Cheddar, butter, or plain?   

I went with the Chicago mix. 

[RZNJ]

5 minutes ago, joelala said:

I went with the Chicago mix. 

Got me. What’s that?  I need something in case D.L. goes one more.

[joelala]

Just now, RZNJ said:

Got me. What’s that?  I need something in case D.L. goes one more.

Cheddar mixed with caramel. Sounds weird but it’s .