How much better would Carlos Correa make the O's?

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don’t know why people discount the idea of Gunnar playing SS.   From what I saw and read, he’s certainly big league average there defensively, and will be way above average offensively.   It’s a very viable option IMO.  Then you relegate Mateo to utility player, or trade him.  And if three months go by and Ortiz is hitting the snot out of the ball in AAA, you can bring him up and move Gunnar to 3B then if you need to.   I’m not saying this is the only option, or even  the best option (depending on trade value of Mateo and Urias).   It’s just one of several very good options we have.  

I don't discount it at all. It's a very real possibility.  Urias, Henderson, Westburg.  Maybe.  Urias holding 3B until Mayo is ready?  Maybe.  Ortiz is a backup plan, trade bait, or utility.  I really think Mateo gets traded if he's anything but the starting SS.

[Just Regular]

Its certainly possible Gunnar's home is shortstop.     The Orioles aren't going to say openly if they have intellectual capital like the cumulative wear and tear of manning SS is known precisely enough it'd be an inefficient use of Gunnar's joints (Royce Lewis' have taken some bumps), and that's why he didn't get to have an everyday SS job in the minor leagues.

But they have to play somebody in the major leagues regularly next season, so any developmental guardrails will have to be taken off.     MLB teams seldom platoon shortstops - for me they are like quarterbacks, if you have two, you have none.

I'm still on the Occam's razor of shortstops play shortstop (watching you Jackson Holliday in 2023), and almost every pro caliber position player on their Little League, high school, and A-ball teams is the shortstop.   They can't all be Cal Ripken or Ozzie Smith even though the confidence helping them to the Show tells them they probably are.

Holliday and Carter Young will probably be teammates for some of 2023 - could be like the Westburg and Gunnar show all over again.

[Roll Tide]

3 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

That might get it done. I would bet they get someone higher than Cowser at the centerpiece but if you could convince them to take a volume deal this could work. Would be a fun two years with Burnes and Correa. We'll see in 2026 or so whether we regret it. 

I still don't see how Burnes makes Correa a good fit long term. Personally, I'd be inclined deal for Burnes if we can get him without costing Holliday, then pass on Correa and find other ways to upgrade the offense.

Well your getting Hall and Cowser are #22 and #34 in the top 100 per fangraphs. 

[Sports Guy]

Bump..this is a funny thread.

I didn’t realize how bad Correa was doing this year until earlier today.

He’s too good to be this bad but it’s not surprising to see him starting to show signs of declining play either.

I would think he still ends up a 3+ WAR guy this year but definitely happy they didn’t sign him.

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Bump..this is a funny thread.

I didn’t realize how bad Correa was doing this year until earlier today.

He’s too good to be this bad but it’s not surprising to see him starting to show signs of declining play either.

I would think he still ends up a 3+ WAR guy this year but definitely happy they didn’t sign him.

I kind of enjoy it when (1) some big contract blows up in a team’s face (unless it’s Chris Davis), or (2) some greedy player turns down a generous extension and then plays his way into a lesser contract (which it looks like Juan Soto is in the process of doing, though it’s still a bit early to say).   

Kind of off-topic, but I think the Padres are going to regret the Manny extension.  His initial deal made sense; the extension does not, IMO.
 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I kind of enjoy it when (1) some big contract blows up in a team’s face (unless it’s Chris Davis), or (2) some greedy player turns down a generous extension and then plays his way into a lesser contract (which it looks like Juan Soto is in the process of doing, though it’s still a bit early to say).   

Kind of off-topic, but I think the Padres are going to regret the Manny extension.  His initial deal made sense; the extension does not, IMO.
 

They have to win a title with him, after this season, to not regret it. 

You would trade a WS win for money any day.

[Frobby]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

They have to win a title with him, after this season, to not regret it. 

You would trade a WS win for money any day.

I suppose that’s fair, assuming Manny is a significant contributor to the WS title.  

So I guess by this logic, Patrick Corbin’s 6/$140 mm contract was worth it to the Nats?  
 

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I suppose that’s fair, assuming Manny is a significant contributor to the WS title.  

So I guess by this logic, Patrick Corbin’s 6/$140 mm contract was worth it to the Nats?  
 

Yea, I’m assuming mannys contributions would be a factor.

Dont remember what Corbin did that year.

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea, I’m assuming mannys contributions would be a factor.

Dont remember what Corbin did that year.

14-7, 3.25 ERA, 202 IP.  Worth 5.0 rWAR that year.  He wasn’t particularly good in the playoffs.  In the WS he was 1-1 with a 3.60 ERA in 10 IP.

Since then, he’s 18-47 with a 5.72 ERA and still has another year after this one on his deal.  So, he really tests the limits of the “contract was worth it if he helped his team win a WS” argument.  

[Moose Milligan]

Couldn’t be happier that a guy like Correa is having a terrible season. 

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

14-7, 3.25 ERA, 202 IP.  Worth 5.0 rWAR that year.  He wasn’t particularly good in the playoffs.  In the WS he was 1-1 with a 3.60 ERA in 10 IP.

Since then, he’s 18-47 with a 5.72 ERA and still has another year after this one on his deal.  So, he really tests the limits of the “contract was worth it if he helped his team win a WS” argument.  

But he was an integral part in them winning and getting to the playoffs.  So yes, it’s worth it.

It’s also not a contract that straps you 8+ years and doesn’t have the same AAV that some of the bigger deals do.

Now, the right question to ask is, what else was available to them they didn’t do and would that have also helped them win?  We don’t know the answer to that.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Sports Guy

[sportsfan8703]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I kind of enjoy it when (1) some big contract blows up in a team’s face (unless it’s Chris Davis), or (2) some greedy player turns down a generous extension and then plays his way into a lesser contract (which it looks like Juan Soto is in the process of doing, though it’s still a bit early to say).   

Kind of off-topic, but I think the Padres are going to regret the Manny extension.  His initial deal made sense; the extension does not, IMO.
 

Most of the deals handed out this past offseason look bad or terrible.  

[Ripken]

Those massive contracts very rarely work out.  I never wanted Correa.  Between all the MI prospects we have and his bad medicals, it was throwing away money. 

[DrungoHazewood]

3 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Most of the deals handed out this past offseason look bad or terrible.  

We're five weeks into most of those deals, so either they were terrible from the minute the ink was dry or we're a year or two short of knowing much of anything meaningful.

Correa has had 25-game spans where he OPS'd under .620 in 2016, 2018, 2019, 2021, along with one in 2022 where he OPS'd .633.  It's a lot more obvious when it starts the year.

[Ohfan67]

On 5/10/2023 at 3:33 PM, DrungoHazewood said:

We're five weeks into most of those deals, so either they were terrible from the minute the ink was dry or we're a year or two short of knowing much of anything meaningful.

Correa has had 25-game spans where he OPS'd under .620 in 2016, 2018, 2019, 2021, along with one in 2022 where he OPS'd .633.  It's a lot more obvious when it starts the year.

Buzz killer