“Lessen the pressure on Stowers and Vavra”

[Just Regular]

I know he ended up disqualified based on days, but curious where @Tony-OH(think I did that right) would have slotted Stowers in relative to Kjerstad on his list this year.

On the Mike Elias Smartest Guy in the Room Carlos Correa Gunnar Henderson I Know How Good You Will Be when you graduate middle school but will fight you for every 4 cents of bonus pool money scoreboard, Kjerstad pulled about 10x more than Stowers.     A year from now if we are lucky he'll be a stronger contender for a role like the one Stowers might play for the 2023 Orioles.

If Stowers is an underdog to be one of BAL's top 9 position players ever, is it nicer for July if he is Barry Bonds at Norfolk, or trying to survive up here in a part-time role?    If some starting nine caliber left handed bat is acquired as Elias has hinted at, reps for Stowers get tough to find.

Having not won the lottery, we know no more Jackson Holliday (or even Heston Kjerstad or Colton Cowser) types are arriving during Adley's run.    The top candidates for 2025 first string roles are perhaps Adley, Mayo, Norby*, Holliday, Gunnar, Cowser, Mullins, Kjerstad and Mountcastle.     We'll see if Fabian or Beavers challenge Mullins for CF by then.

*more or less picking randomly among Norby-Westburg-Ortiz-Hernaiz for 2B

[DrinkinWithFermi]

15 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

[turtlebowl]

I've mentioned it a couple of times.  My theory on this is the players that the O's are interested in long term to fill one of the 8 spots on the field need to be considered at least above average defenders.   If anyone watched last season we saw Odor playing because we were told they needed his defense.  We saw Vavra get designated to the bench after a bad defensive game at second.  We saw similar things happen to Stowers in the outfield.  If we look back on it, most decisions that had us scratching our heads last season can now be rationalized if we would of looked at it from the defensive view (Brett Phillips ring a bell).  

I think the new blue print of the team will be putting a huge emphasis on defense.  Between that and the wall allows the pitchers the opportunity to excel by following their analytics.  Think about this, average MLB pitchers having success without having to pay top dollar for what is the riskiest financial commodity on every MLB roster. 

Now the question is can they balance this plan with enough offense to compete?  

[RZNJ]

40 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

They can still play Stowers even after adding another LH bat. Why assume he is a given to play well? Mix the 4 OF’s and Santander stays mainly at DH. Cowser’s arrival will cause a move but worry about that then. If a Harold Castro type player is the addition I don’t think you will have to worry about Stowers not playing much. That idea would be laughable. 

Roch’s comment seems to be laying the groundwork for a SP signing but not a Bassitt or Eovaldi type. Of course like anything it depends on how you define “upper layer.” They certainly aren’t going to be winning any bidding wars. 

I think Roch knows ZERO.   He's guessing just like the rest of us.    He says now that we never could have been in on Rodon because that would have been going 0-60.   Give me a break.    Another 30M on this payroll is hardly going from 0-60 in one offseason.   I don't think he's being the mouthpiece for the organization here.   I think it's Roch speaking for himself and trying to figure things out on his own.

The part about Vavra and Stowers did come from Elias.   I have no idea what the thinking is there but everything said and implied suggests that Stowers is not involved in Plan A to start the season.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

15 minutes ago, turtlebowl said:

My theory on this is the players that the O's are interested in long term to fill one of the 8 spots on the field need to be considered at least above average defenders. 

I think Kjerstad being drafted at #2 overall disproves this, or at least shows it is not a total dealbreaker. His defensive ceiling, as far as I have read, has always been "average-ish."

[interloper]

It's kind of nonsense yeah. Those guys need less pressure but 21 year old Gunnar doesn't?

Basically it's code for, we don't want our offense relying on guys we're not very high on.

[Pickles]

Another day; another fairly innocuous quote analyzed to death.

IMO, he's being pretty straightforward: Vavra and Stowers are not the level of prospect you just hand a ML everyday job.

I don't think that means they "hate" them.  I think they're being pretty realistic.

[Pickles]

Just now, interloper said:

It's kind of nonsense yeah. Those guys need less pressure but 21 year old Gunnar doesn't?

Basically it's code for, we don't want our offense relying on guys we're not very high on.

Yes, exactly.  It isn't even "code."

[interloper]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

Another day; another fairly innocuous quote analyzed to death.

IMO, he's being pretty straightforward: Vavra and Stowers are not the level of prospect you just hand a ML everyday job.

I don't think that means they "hate" them.  I think they're being pretty realistic.

Fair take, I basically agree. Elias, I love the guy, but he could do with closing his mouth a little more. It's nice he wants to explain and try to communicate a lot but... yeah.

[Pickles]

Just now, interloper said:

Fair take, I basically agree. Elias, I love the guy, but he could do with closing his mouth a little more. It's nice he wants to explain and try to communicate a lot but... yeah.

LOL.  And he'd be roasted if he holed up and hid from the media. 

It's the Winter Meetings.  He's going to give interviews.

The "problem," which isn't a problem at all, is that people are going to overanalyze everything he says and try to decipher some hidden meaning- almost always one that confirms some previously held belief- like he's the Oracle of Delphi.

It's a good "problem" to have.  The fact that anyone cares enough about the Orioles to have strong emotions after 3 decades of general ineptitude is miraculous, frankly.

[Tony-OH]

36 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

I know he ended up disqualified based on days, but curious where @Tony-OH(think I did that right) would have slotted Stowers in relative to Kjerstad on his list this year.

On the Mike Elias Smartest Guy in the Room Carlos Correa Gunnar Henderson I Know How Good You Will Be when you graduate middle school but will fight you for every 4 cents of bonus pool money scoreboard, Kjerstad pulled about 10x more than Stowers.     A year from now if we are lucky he'll be a stronger contender for a role like the one Stowers might play for the 2023 Orioles.

If Stowers is an underdog to be one of BAL's top 9 position players ever, is it nicer for July if he is Barry Bonds at Norfolk, or trying to survive up here in a part-time role?    If some starting nine caliber left handed bat is acquired as Elias has hinted at, reps for Stowers get tough to find.

Having not won the lottery, we know no more Jackson Holliday (or even Heston Kjerstad or Colton Cowser) types are arriving during Adley's run.    The top candidates for 2025 first string roles are perhaps Adley, Mayo, Norby*, Holliday, Gunnar, Cowser, Mullins, Kjerstad and Mountcastle.     We'll see if Fabian or Beavers challenge Mullins for CF by then.

*more or less picking randomly among Norby-Westburg-Ortiz-Hernaiz for 2B

I thought about Stowers when I did the list and I would have had him right after Cowser at 9.

I have give Cowser the nod for his defense and his ability to draw more walks overall.

It's close though because Stowers doesn't have a platoon issue like Cowser. It's a toss up in my mind and you take what you value most. Me, Cowser brings a significant defensive advantage in the corners and can legitimately play center field right now, but won't be great out there and will grow out of that as he loses foot speed due to his size.

[RZNJ]

7 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Another day; another fairly innocuous quote analyzed to death.

IMO, he's being pretty straightforward: Vavra and Stowers are not the level of prospect you just hand a ML everyday job.

I don't think that means they "hate" them.  I think they're being pretty realistic.

Ok, but it does say something.   It's tough for Stowers to win a job if he's not starting.  It's also tough to see him on the roster at all if they sign a LH hitting oufielder.   They are probably still going to have McKenna.    They are going to have two  reserve outfielders in addition to the 4 starting outfielders/DH?

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, eddie83 said:

They can still play Stowers even after adding another LH bat. Why assume he is a given to play well? Mix the 4 OF’s and Santander stays mainly at DH. Cowser’s arrival will cause a move but worry about that then. If a Harold Castro type player is the addition I don’t think you will have to worry about Stowers not playing much. That idea would be laughable. 

Roch’s comment seems to be laying the groundwork for a SP signing but not a Bassitt or Eovaldi type. Of course like anything it depends on how you define “upper layer.” They certainly aren’t going to be winning any bidding wars. 

The O's already won a bidding war vs the Jays for Gibson.

Edited December 9, 2022 by wildcard

[Tony-OH]

It's hard to really say what Elias is talking about, but the organization is not treating Stowers like "a guy". I get Vavra since his defensive and power limitations makes him probably a decent utility guy off the bench at best.

Stowers though, I just don't get. Does he have holes in his swing, sure, but I've seen him look terrible two times in a row on the same pitch an then when the pitcher goes in there the 3rd time he hits the ball about 115 MPH for about 430 feet.

Stowers really did a nice job cutting down the K's last year and while I don't think he's going to be a big time average guy, he's going to be a 30+ homer, .340 OBP guy. 

He should be in the rotation between RF and DH with Santander. If he does get close to 500 PAs next year, that's poor on the Orioles.

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Ok, but it does say something.   It's tough for Stowers to win a job if he's not starting.  It's also tough to see him on the roster at all if they sign a LH hitting oufielder.   They are probably still going to have McKenna.    They are going to have two  reserve outfielders in addition to the 4 starting outfielders/DH?

Yes, Stowers is going to have to "win" more playing time.  He's not Adley, and he's not Gunnar.  This is as it should be.