The warning signs are there for the reading

[Going Underground]

12 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I definitely think the Rays model may be how Elias ultimately decides he must operate if he's not going to be given much of a budget.

I hope people realize that means Rutschman and Gunnar will be traded by year 4 or 5 if that's the case.

Personally, while I can appreciate how the Rays keep themselves relevant, they've never won a WS with this model and I do think the lack of identity with their players is a problem for some fans.

I don't think the Orioles need to be run like that and with the right ownership support, they shouldn't. 

 

Rays did sign Franco to an 11 year contract  till 2034. Plus they have five guys already signed for next year and a few going out further then that. Plus they have 10 guys that cannot become free agents till 2027 or 2028. Supposedly spending a little more money. Bid on Freeman last year .

[Tony-OH]

5 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

Rays did sign Franco to an 11 year contract  till 2034. Plus they have five guys already signed for next year and a few going out further then that. Plus they have 10 guys that cannot become free agents till 2027 or 2028. Supposedly spending a little more money. Bid on Freeman last year .

It will be interesting to see if the Orioles try and do the Franco style contract with Gunnar. As good as Rutschman is, I don't think you can do with a catcher, at least not for the same length.

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

It will be interesting to see if the Orioles try and do the Franco style contract with Gunnar. As good as Rutschman is, I don't think you can do with a catcher, at least not for for length.

8 years?  8 with an option? 

Edited December 13, 2022 by eddie83

[Tony-OH]

11 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Attack?    I attacked his post.  Attacking him would be Yardball calling Owknows the most absurd poster ever or HakunaSakata downvoting him 3 times in one thread.   Feels like you have a dog in this fight.   I’ll take a self imposed time out now.

"The crying and whining!    I have a right not to like it.  What a bunch of depressing whiner"

If you don't understand the difference between saying what you said above and calling someone's opinion absurd, then a little break might be what you need for perspective. 

I have no dog in this fight besides seeing us all have a discussion without personally attacking each other. that's the last I'm going to say on this and get back to the baseball talk.

[Aristotelian]

21 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I definitely think the Rays model may be how Elias ultimately decides he must operate if he's not going to be given much of a budget.

I hope people realize that means Rutschman and Gunnar will be traded by year 4 or 5 if that's the case.

Personally, while I can appreciate how the Rays keep themselves relevant, they've never won a WS with this model and I do think the lack of identity with their players is a problem for some fans.

I don't think the Orioles need to be run like that and with the right ownership support, they shouldn't. 

 

The Rays have extended several of their star players to team friendly deals. 

[Tony-OH]

2 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

8 years?  8 with an option? 

I would certainly do 8 with Rutschman, but I'm not sure he would unless the money was real good. 

[Tony-OH]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

The Rays have extended several of their star players to team friendly deals. 

True, but they've also traded away a lot of good talent over the years. it does seem like they are trying to stop that by risking these long term deals on young players. That's a risk because not all of these guys are going to work out. 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

It will be interesting to see if the Orioles try and do the Franco style contract with Gunnar. As good as Rutschman is, I don't think you can do with a catcher, at least not for for length.

With Boras as his agent, I don’t hold out much hope of signing Gunnar long term. As to Adley, I’d be looking at the Buster Posey contract as the model.  That could justify a 9-10 year deal.  

[Going Underground]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

I would certainly do 8 with Rutschman, but I'm not sure he would unless the money was real good. 

 

4 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

It will be interesting to see if the Orioles try and do the Franco style contract with Gunnar. As good as Rutschman is, I don't think you can do with a catcher, at least not for the same length.

The Franco contract is definitely back loaded.Only $2 mm. in 2023,starting in 2027 goes to $22 mm. and $25 mm.  the rest of the contract.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

6 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

It will be interesting to see if the Orioles try and do the Franco style contract with Gunnar. As good as Rutschman is, I don't think you can do with a catcher, at least not for the same length.

Gunnar is a Boras guy so I think we can safely rule out an early career long-term extension in the Atlanta mold.

Adley also seems like a longshot for an extension of that type since he has already banked over $10 million between his draft bonus, top 2 ROY finish bonus, and regular salary.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Going Underground said:

 

The Franco contract is definitely back loaded.Only $2 mm. in 2023,starting in 2027 goes to $22 mm. and $25 mm.  the rest of the contract.

No reason to be paying Franco a lot in 2023, as he only would be earning $700 k that year if he wasn’t under contract.  He wouldn’t be a free agent until 2028, hence the final salary bump then.  

[eddie83]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

With Boras as his agent, I don’t hold out much hope of signing Gunnar long term. As to Adley, I’d be looking at the Buster Posey contract as the model.  That could justify a 9-10 year deal.  

Make Gunnar turn it down. Offer him enough you never know. 

[Sports Guy]

I definitely think you can sign Gunnar to a deal. I just think it would be more for 8 years than 10-12.

[Frobby]

Just now, eddie83 said:

Make Gunnar turn it down. Offer him enough you never know. 

OK with me.  Would you offer him the Franco deal?  

[Three Run Homer]

4 hours ago, owknows said:

They are going to have to face the reality of a crowded middle infield.

Henderson, Westburg, Ortiz, Norby, Holliday.

You're going to have to trade two of these guys. You can't play 'em all.

And yeah... for two of these guys (and a lottery ticket) you could get an emerging quality starter. Better quality than the team could currently afford/attract from Free Agency.

Before long, the same thing will manifest itself in the outfield.

Producing considerable trade possibilities.

I don't see the need to trade any of those five guys right now.  Westburg, Ortiz and Henderson should be your starting infield this year.   Holliday is at least a couple of years away.  By the time Holliday is ready to go, then maybe Ortiz or Westburg hasn't panned out, or if they have both succeeded you trade one of them.  

Norby needs to find a defensive position.  Reports are that his defense at 2B is substandard.  Maybe he can improve there and then you have a surplus.  Maybe he needs to move to 1B or LF, in which case he's a candidate to displace Hays or Mountcastle if he continues to rake at AAA.   Or maybe he brings higher value as a trade candidate to a team with a stadium that is more favorable to right handed power hitters. 

In any case, I think you'd need to trade either Henderson or two of the other four (or someone comparable like Cowser) plus one or more lower-level guys to get a good starting pitcher back.  I'm not thrilled about that idea.