Inf prospects to CF?

[SemperFi]

Good call, in watching him I think his instincts really come into play.  I can't help but think given the contracts recently given to shortstops if he or Holliday were moved their agents would scream bloody murder.

[seak05]

13 hours ago, Frobby said:

Nearing free agency?   He’s three seasons away!  By then you might have Fabian or Beavers in CF.   

I guess it’s more j just see him in a lot of trade rumors 

 

12 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Of the current middle infielders, Vavra has the most experience out there making 30 starts. Typically you want plus speed to consider moving an infielder to center field. Holliday right now would have that, but there are not a lot of other candidates. 

yeah I guess this was mostly my question, is there anyone with plus speed. And the answer appears to be no.

So if the orioles were to part with Mullins, they’re either taking a real drop in defense with Cowser or serious offense drop with McKenna (or I guess Haskin).

It would be a big win for system depth if Fabian can hit 

[Tony-OH]

7 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Gunnar would be an intriguing fit in CF if he wasn’t so good in the IF.  

He's certainly ahs the foot speed for sure. I didn't go into it, but yes, you don't move a guy that's good on the dirt unless you have better people. Players always have more value on the if they can play a plus left side of the infield vs the outfield. 

This is why I don't see the Orioles in a hurry to move Mullins. They really don't have any proper replacements in the upper portion of the minors, though Cowser can play there for now (He would be average at best).

Finding good defense up the middle is not that easy to find, and the Orioles have a strength there right now with Adley, Mateo/Gunnar, Mullins up the middle defensively.

With the addition of Frazier, Elias is telling people, including his prospects that he values defense heavily. This gives Jud Fabian a leg up on his competition because of defense in CF. If he hits at all they will aggressively move up the ladder next year.

 

[Tony-OH]

8 minutes ago, seak05 said:

I guess it’s more j just see him in a lot of trade rumors 

 

yeah I guess this was mostly my question, is there anyone with plus speed. And the answer appears to be no.

So if the orioles were to part with Mullins, they’re either taking a real drop in defense with Cowser or serious offense drop with McKenna (or I guess Haskin).

It would be a big win for system depth if Fabian can hit 

I think I answered your question in the post before this one. Your right, Fabian is the only guy I currently see who legitimately can play a plus defensive CF in the system right now.

[seak05]

6 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I think I answered your question in the post before this one. Your right, Fabian is the only guy I currently see who legitimately can play a plus defensive CF in the system right now.

Yep, thanks 

[Frobby]

7 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

With the addition of Frazier, Elias is telling people, including his prospects that he values defense heavily. 

I agree.   And that’s a good message for the prospects to receive.   

[Just Regular]

5 hours ago, SemperFi said:

Good call, in watching him I think his instincts really come into play.  I can't help but think given the contracts recently given to shortstops if he or Holliday were moved their agents would scream bloody murder.

Gunnar hired Boras Corp back in January, and Scott himself was at Jackson's press conference, so in time something will have to give.     Its some of why I'm kind of pulling for a clear 3B right now, and let Mateo/Ortiz be a bridge.    I know the Orioles are training it to be otherwise as best they can, but believe establishing yourself as a big league star daily consistency probably helps.

Unless Holliday busts spectacularly, Ortiz like Mateo is probably just a temp at the shortstop position.

[SemperFi]

38 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

Gunnar hired Boras Corp back in January, and Scott himself was at Jackson's press conference, so in time something will have to give.     Its some of why I'm kind of pulling for a clear 3B right now, and let Mateo/Ortiz be a bridge.    I know the Orioles are training it to be otherwise as best they can, but believe establishing yourself as a big league star daily consistency probably helps.

Unless Holliday busts spectacularly, Ortiz like Mateo is probably just a temp at the shortstop position.

Have a dear friend whose grandson pitched at Columbia then was hired by Boras last year.  It was really interesting to hear him talk about their culture, lot of Ivy league guys like Elias and Epstien.  He spoke very highly of Elias but as an entry level hire he obviously didn't have any contact with  him.

[orioles22]

1 hour ago, SemperFi said:

2 hours ago, Just Regular said:

Gunnar hired Boras Corp back in January, and Scott himself was at Jackson's press conference, so in time something will have to give.     Its some of why I'm kind of pulling for a clear 3B right now, and let Mateo/Ortiz be a bridge.    I know the Orioles are training it to be otherwise as best they can, but believe establishing yourself as a big league star daily consistency probably helps.

Unless Holliday busts spectacularly, Ortiz like Mateo is probably just a temp at the shortstop position.

 

That's why I don't  like the idea of moving Gunnar to short. Let him stay at third for a decade or more. No reason to move Ortiz there either - just let Mateo hold it down for two years until Holliday is ready. We could have a great defense with an infield of Gunnar, Mateo/Holliday, Ortiz and Westburg/Mountcastle from left to right.

 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, orioles22 said:

That's why I don't  like the idea of moving Gunnar to short. Let him stay at third for a decade or more. No reason to move Ortiz there either - just let Mateo hold it down for two years until Holliday is ready. We could have a great defense with an infield of Gunnar, Mateo/Holliday, Ortiz and Westburg/Mountcastle from left to right.

 

You aren't moving Gunnar to short, he's a shorstop.

You don't move a top prospect off his most valuable defensive position because of a kid who played 12 games in A ball (four at 2B).

Put Gunnar where he is most valuable and then make other decision as those decisions need to be made.

[orioles22]

A lot of players are shortstops until they aren't. Gunnar was a third baseman last season and looked good there. Mateo is the best shortstop we have. I'd guess Ortiz is better also, but from what I ready from Tony it sounds he could be a Gold Glover at second.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, orioles22 said:

A lot of players are shortstops until they aren't. Gunnar was a third baseman last season and looked good there. Mateo is the best shortstop we have. I'd guess Ortiz is better also, but from what I ready from Tony it sounds he could be a Gold Glover at second.

He also looked good at Short.

Leave players at the position that maximizes their value until they prove they can't play there.

I think Gunnar will provide more value at Shortstop than Mateo will.

[orioles22]

I agree with 1 and 3, but I think Elias will look a the big picture.

Will anyone be better at third than Gunnar? I don't think so.

Will anyone be better than Ortiz at second? I don't think so.

Is anyone better at short than Mateo? No, at least not defensively. I would imagine Holliday will be very good there also, but that's a guess.

I also think Westburg would be better at first than the other infield spots from what Tony wrote.

[Frobby]

17 minutes ago, orioles22 said:

I agree with 1 and 3, but I think Elias will look a the big picture.

Will anyone be better at third than Gunnar? I don't think so.

Will anyone be better than Ortiz at second? I don't think so.

Is anyone better at short than Mateo? No, at least not defensively. I would imagine Holliday will be very good there also, but that's a guess.

I also think Westburg would be better at first than the other infield spots from what Tony wrote.

Offense is going to be a factor.   If Ortiz turns out to be noticeably better on offense than Mateo, he will replace Mateo at SS eventually.  He’s a plus defender, maybe shy of Mateo but close enough to be the starting SS if the bat’s noticeably better.   If on the other hand Ortiz turns out similar to Mateo with the bat, he’s going to be a utility player.   Personally, I expect his bat to be significantly better than Mateo’s, unless Mateo finds a way to improve significantly.  

[orioles22]

That makes sense, but  by the time they figure that out then Holliday may be ready to take over. Perhaps Ortiz is good enough to move Holliday to second.