Jorge Mateo 2023

[Bemorewins]

34 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

The question might become do we keep him and trade Ortiz this season or because we are a small market team does him hitting arbitration next year and him starting to cost more do we move Mateo. Who could be a center piece for front line starter that would be cheaper then trying to sign one in free agency.  If he hits .280 plays same defense as last year, OBP .350+ with 15-20 homers and 60+ steals can he be main piece to get someone like Burns?  

We are not that small of a market! We carried a 180 million dollar payroll in 2018. You can miss me on the propaganda.

If we start letting good to great players go with this type of rationale, we won’t win anything. And then as far fan who lives in this community, what is my incentive to support such a second rate outfit?

[wildcard]

12 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Frazier has little to no trade value. It would be a safe bet to not put any eggs in that basket. Instead of letting those 3 battle it out. IMO the better play would be for the Front Office to figure out who they think is the best of the 3. And then package the other 2 in a deadline deal for a real starting pitcher. Not a Gibson or Irvin type, but a needle mover who can actually help us get to and win in the postseason. 

People keep hoping the O's will sign the big FA or make the big trade.  Meanwhile Elias keeps telling us that this is a development organization.  Drafting and development is were the O's stars will come from.   Maybe some day people will listen but I am not holding my breath.

If you get MASN, watch the Tom Davis interview with Elias on Take Me out to the Ball Game.  They play it over and over.  He states it again.  

IMO Elias is going to trade guys as they get close to FA for prospects to keep the farm system producing.   And he is gone to keep the best young players in the majors and at AAA as depth that he can call on when injuries hit.   Its Elias formula to win the World Series and stay a contender year after year.

Edited April 17, 2023 by wildcard

[banks703]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

What do we do with him?  Weapon.  5 tools. Can’t leave him in the 9 hole. I like him leadoff with Mullins behind him. 

Nope. Don’t touch him. If he hits like this the entire season then think about what to do with him then. He is in the PERFECT spot FOR HIM in the lineup right now. There’s less pressure and they roll over it over behind him. He’s going to score 100 runs easy this year if he hits even remotely close to what he’s hitting right now. 

[AnythingO's]

15 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

We are not that small of a market! We carried a 180 million dollar payroll in 2018. You can miss me on the propaganda.

You can call it "propaganda" if you wish but understand I HATE THE ANGELOS with a passion. However, The Payroll was $183 M in 2017 and according to FORBES, who is the only source of data on this subject, the Orioles LOST $26 M that year. With CURRENT REVENUE streams the O's are at break-even status at a Payroll level around $150-160 M which includes Expenses around $20 M so $130-140 M in Salaries. Does JA still make money even at Forbes break even point, O yes I am sure. Will he continue to run the O's as a business, O yes I am sure. Will he dip into his pocket like PA did, NO FREAKING WAY IMHO.

Edited April 17, 2023 by AnythingO's
typo

[Billy F-Face3]

5 minutes ago, wildcard said:

People keep hoping the O's will sign the big FA or make the big trade.  Meanwhile Elias keeps telling us the this is a development organization.  Drafting and development is were the O's stars will come from.   Maybe some day people will listen but I am not holding my breath.

If you get MASN, watch the Tom Davis interview with Elias on Take Me out to the Ball Game.  They play it over and over.  He states it again.  

IMO Elias is going to trade guys as they get close to FA for prospects to keep the farm system producing.   And he is gone to keep the best young players in the majors and at AAA as depth that he call on when injuries hit.   Its Elias formula to win the World Series and stay a contender year after year.

For that formula to work, he's going to have to get better results with developing starting pitchers like the Rays do. Even if Grayson blossoms into an Ace like we hope he can develope into, there's still a lot of other pitchers that have been given up on as starters and put into the bullpen, or are stuck in AAA struggling as starters.

We need to do a better job at developing starting pitching.

[Bemorewins]

45 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

Sorry, Ortiz is your GG 2B for the Adley-Gunnar years.

That’s fine by me. Then we will need to package Westburg. 
 

I don’t know who is better between Ortiz and Westburg. Or who Elias likes better. But we are going to need to package some of these redundant position prospects at some point for some real pitching, in order to construct a roster that can win in the postseason.

[Billy F-Face3]

According to most sources, Baltimore is not a small market but a medium or an "Above Average" size market. The problem we have is because the Expos came to town in Washington and took away a large chunk of our market, which diminished our attendance (helped by point in time when the Orioles were rebuilding), which caused us to lose the financial power we had when we were able to sign players like Roberto Alamar, Rafael Palmeiro, BJ Surhoff, Miguel Tejada, etc. That was made worst when Angelos starting signing 1 year wonders (like Jimenez and Chris Davis) or has beens (like Albert Belle, Sammy Sosa, and Vladimir Guerrero Sr) that had no business getting big deals when they got them.

[Bemorewins]

12 minutes ago, wildcard said:

People keep hoping the O's will sign the big FA or make the big trade.  Meanwhile Elias keeps telling us that this is a development organization.  Drafting and development is were the O's stars will come from.   Maybe some day people will listen but I am not holding my breath.

If you get MASN, watch the Tom Davis interview with Elias on Take Me out to the Ball Game.  They play it over and over.  He states it again.  

IMO Elias is going to trade guys as they get close to FA for prospects to keep the farm system producing.   And he is gone to keep the best young players in the majors and at AAA as depth that he can call on when injuries hit.   Its Elias formula to win the World Series and stay a contender year after year.

Then that is a very flawed philosophy. Draft all hitting prospects and no pitchers and then not take the redundant assets and turn them into pitchers who can stack up in the postseason?

We don’t have the pitching within our org even if Grayson pops. I assume you have looked at our competition in the AL. Just look at who each of our competitors started today and look at the results. We are not going to be able to outhit everyone, especially not in the postseason. But I know you know that and Elias does too.

If we retains every prospect, where does the pitching realistically come from?

[AnythingO's]

29 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

That’s fine by me. Then we will need to package Westburg. 
 

I don’t know who is better between Ortiz and Westburg. Or who Elias likes better. But we are going to need to package some of these redundant position prospects at some point for some real pitching, in order to construct a roster that can win in the postseason.

Define "BETTER"??? Ortiz is projected to play GG defense at 2B and be very good at SS. I don't know if he has the skills for 3b or not, haven't read anything here about that. IMHO Ortiz is a better, younger Urias who we can control longer. Westburg is a very athletic player who doesn't project to be a GG at any IF position, but his bat is the real deal. Can he make the transition to COF, TBD but we need time to figure that out. We have similar situations with Norby, Mayo, Kjerstad to name a few. Time will tell, hopefully the ME-SIG crystal ball will be clear by ASB.

Edited April 17, 2023 by AnythingO's
typo

[Bemorewins]

13 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

You can call it "propaganda" if you wish but understand I HATE THE ANGELOS with a passion. However, The Payroll was $183 M in 2017 and according to FORBES, who is the only source of data on this subject, the Orioles LOST $26 M that year. With CURRENT REVENUE streams the O's are at break-even status at a Payroll level around $150-160 M which includes Expenses around $20 M so $130-140 M in Salaries. Does JA still make money even at Forbes break even point, O yes I am sure. Will he continue to run the O's as a business, O yes I am sure. Will he dip into his pocket like PA did, NO FREAKING WAY IMHO.

We are at less than 60 now, so ownership has been pocketing profits for a few years now. I’m not asking to operate at a loss. But a payroll at 100-120 million should be doable. 
 

But I believe if it can be messed up, our ownership will figure out how.  

[Gurgi]

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

We are at less than 60 now, so ownership has been pocketing profits for a few years now. I’m not asking to operate at a loss. But a payroll at 100-120 million should be doable. 
 

But I believe if it can be messed up, our ownership will figure out how.  

Owners of Baseball teams are supposed to be Multi Billionaires that buy teams as a personal prestige vehicle.  In our case we have a family that can not actually make money on their own.  They seem to be living off the profit the Orioles make.   The Angelos Lawfirm seems to be winding down.   

[Bemorewins]

3 minutes ago, Gurgi said:

Owners of Baseball teams are supposed to be Multi Billionaires that buy teams as a personal prestige vehicle.  In our case we have a family that can not actually make money on their own.  They seem to be living off the profit the Orioles make.   The Angelos Lawfirm seems to be winding down.   

Well hopefully when old man Pete is no longer around, a sale will be forced. And the Angelos plague will come to an end.

[AnythingO's]

5 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

If we retains every prospect, where does the pitching realistically come from?

ME will NOT keep every prospect but he WILL NOT make trades to appease your impatience. How did GRod look to you after the 1st inning????? Like a stud who wouldn't crumble, like Stowers said he was.!!!!! John Means was a solid #2 pre TJ and Bradish seems like a solid 2-3 stuff-wise with a little seasoning, To my humble eye, that is a playoff rotation, just maybe not in 2023. Then you still have Kremer, Povich, Seth Johnson, maybe Tavara before you get to Zimmermann, Rom, Pinto who will likely be the next BP wave. could we use an upgrade to say Irvin RIGHT NOW, sure but IMHO, I would try to trade him plus excess IF parts ,for ERod from Tigers who has an opt out after this year. He is under control for 4 yrs-$63M I believe after 2023, aaaan ASB trade just seems logical to me.

[Billy F-Face3]

12 minutes ago, Gurgi said:

Owners of Baseball teams are supposed to be Multi Billionaires that buy teams as a personal prestige vehicle.  In our case we have a family that can not actually make money on their own.  They seem to be living off the profit the Orioles make.   The Angelos Lawfirm seems to be winding down.   

Most MLB teams have billionaire owners. We have a millionaire owner who got lucky when he bought the team for a fraction of what an MLB franchise is worth today.

[bpilktree]

45 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

We are not that small of a market! We carried a 180 million dollar payroll in 2018. You can miss me on the propaganda.

If we start letting good to great players go with this type of rationale, we won’t win anything. And then as far fan who lives in this community, what is my incentive to support such a second rate outfit?

If Mateo keeps the line .280 15 homers and 50 steals he will get a big pay day from someone, but will be 31 years of age when he hits free agency and I don’t see anyway you pay a guy that uses speed and defense as key tools.  If he play like that he will get a Dansby Swanson type contract.  Do you think this team will pay someone 6 years 150 million+ type deal?   I want to sign and extend guys that will be in prime of career not a guy that will get big contract for their mid 30s. We only have so many resources to use.   This team isn’t in same financial place we were 6-10 years ago.  Pete had more money and wanted to spend it to win before he passed since then John has taken over and seems to be more interested in making money.  Then you figure in the loss of finances of Angelose firm and I still have doubts we get anywhere past 120-150 million anytime soon.