I'd rather see Ortiz, Westburg, Cowser and Stowers than Urias, Mateo, Frazier, and Vavra

[Pickles]

3 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Yeah …Gunner is not helping right now. Well the 1 is a homer at least.

I think that's the moral.  I'm not for sending him down, for the record, because guys are going to have to take lumps.

But we can't have 4-5 guys doing it at once and expect to compete.

Gunner isn't better than Urias right now.

I'd be shocked if Ortiz was better than Mateo right now.

Westburg has the lower bar to hurdle and is older, but there's no guarantee he's better than Frazier right now.

Stowers doesn't even look like he belongs in the major leagues, let alone taking ABs away from Hays and Santander.

The general consensus of the board over the winter, and the OP is a great example of that despite the 6 weeks of additional evidence, was that those rookies should be playing over the vets.

Well, we wouldn't have the second best record in major league baseball if that was the case.

[Filmstudy]

On 5/13/2023 at 9:04 AM, sportsfan8703 said:

Someone is advocating to replace Mateo?  Lost me right there. 
 

Vavra is actually proving to be a nice bench piece. Did anyone notice he get the nod as a defensive replacement over McKenna last night. He also got an AB and drew a BB before the Mullins HR. The dude is even trying out emergency catching. 
 

Stowers… Stowers needs to do something offensively. His slump is much different than what Gunnar is going through. Gunnar is getting the Adley treatment at the plate. Teams are afraid of him. Teams are not afraid of Stowers. 
 

Cowser… I’m pretty sure we see him after the Super Two cutoff in mid June. 

They used McCann as a PH vs LHP then put Vavra in RF.  It was odd to me McKenna was not both the PH and the RF (if nothing else to preserve your backup catcher), but Hyde mentioned something about a back problem.

I think the emergency-catcher role is a great way for Vavra to keep himself around.  Lenn Sakata seemed to get a long leash with it as well.

My concern about Henderson is very minor, particularly since he hit well last season.  He's not going anywhere and needs to be in the lineup vs every RHP at a minimum and probably most LHP also.

Stowers is the one young player I'm concerned about.  He's struggling and not displaying the patience he did in the minors.  It's too bad, because he was starting from a good spot after his 98 AB trial in the majors last season.

[Big Mac]

36 minutes ago, Pickles said:

I think that's the moral.  I'm not for sending him down, for the record, because guys are going to have to take lumps.

But we can't have 4-5 guys doing it at once and expect to compete.

Gunner isn't better than Urias right now.

I'd be shocked if Ortiz was better than Mateo right now.

Westburg has the lower bar to hurdle and is older, but there's no guarantee he's better than Frazier right now.

Stowers doesn't even look like he belongs in the major leagues, let alone taking ABs away from Hays and Santander.

The general consensus of the board over the winter, and the OP is a great example of that despite the 6 weeks of additional evidence, was that those rookies should be playing over the vets.

Well, we wouldn't have the second best record in major league baseball if that was the case.

You would be shocked if Ortiz couldn't match the glorious .354 OPS Mateo has posted over the last two weeks? 

[Pickles]

30 minutes ago, Big Mac said:

You would be shocked if Ortiz couldn't match the glorious .354 OPS Mateo has posted over the last two weeks? 

Oh, I didn't know we got to cherry pick the other players worst performance and use that as exemplary of their entire production.

In that case, no I don't think Ortiz can match that as he has a career .349 OPS.

Edited May 14, 2023 by Pickles

[Big Mac]

3 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Oh, I didn't know we got to cherry pick the other players worst performance and use that as exemplary of their entire production.

In that case, no I don't think Ortiz can match that as he has a career .349 OPS.

If you don't like the cherry picking we can also go with the .665 career OPS for Mateo.  Maybe Ortiz can't top that as a rookie, but I'd call it a coin flip.  Ortiz's OPS over 4 major league games is irrelevant. 

[purplepittabread88]

Kyle has gone so low since that White Sox homer last year. It makes no sense he can knock 3 dingers in a game at Norfolk on the 29th, and then bat .07

I dont expect him to be great, but better than .07!

[Bemorewins]

2 hours ago, Os4days said:

I realize Stowers is a young top prospect but he needs to be sent down and allowed to play a full season in the minors. We can’t afford to have him learning on the job as we are no longer a rebuilding team. 
 

I didn’t realize that last year at Norfolk he had 104Ks in just 349 at bats. That 30% strike out ratio shows he doesn’t have plate discipline yet. 

Stowers is definitely not a top prospect. He’s not even considered a prospect anymore. We have nine top 100 prospects in all of baseball. Stowers is not listed as one.

[AnythingO's]

15 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Stowers is definitely not a top prospect. He’s not even considered a prospect anymore. We have nine top 100 prospects in all of baseball. Stowers is not listed as one.

Technically, you are correct as he got enough ABs in 2022 to lose his prospect status but in the 2021 rankings he was #7 ahead of Westburg, Norby, Ortiz and only Cowser of the current crowd was ranked higher. He was a top prospect in the best farm system in MLB. He just hasn't capitalized on his shot.

[Going Underground]

He needs a reset. At the game his at bats were non competitive. Did he hit the ball fair or foul till the last 2 at bats. He looked demoralized  Send him down and hopefully he gets his confidence back. 

[Os4days]

2 hours ago, Filmstudy said:

They used McCann as a PH vs LHP then put Vavra in RF.  It was odd to me McKenna was not both the PH and the RF (if nothing else to preserve your backup catcher), but Hyde mentioned something about a back problem.

Stowers is the one young player I'm concerned about.  He's struggling and not displaying the patience he did in the minors.  It's too bad, because he was starting from a good spot after his 98 AB trial in the majors last season.

I read somewhere that McKenna is a little dinged up which is why Vavra went in as the defensive replacement in RF. 
 

As for your statement about Stowers and his patience at the plate… he struck out at a 30% clip in 2022 in the minors. That’s Adam Dunn patience. 

[Bemorewins]

19 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

Technically, you are correct as he got enough ABs in 2022 to lose his prospect status but in the 2021 rankings he was #7 ahead of Westburg, Norby, Ortiz and only Cowser of the current crowd was ranked higher. He was a top prospect in the best farm system in MLB. He just hasn't capitalized on his shot.

He was never a top prospect. I’m not sure what list you are reading/using. Just look up MLB top 100 prospects. I’m not sure if he ever made it on the lists, if so barely. Cowser is a top 35 prospect currently. Stowers was never even close to top 60. Not even top 100 on most list.

[oriolediehard]

When are the O's going to bring up Cowser, Kjerstad, and Westburg?

When are they sending .067 average Stowers down?

We need offense help.

[RZNJ]

32 minutes ago, Os4days said:

I read somewhere that McKenna is a little dinged up which is why Vavra went in as the defensive replacement in RF. 
 

As for your statement about Stowers and his patience at the plate… he struck out at a 30% clip in 2022 in the minors. That’s Adam Dunn patience. 

He actually struck out about 26% of his PA in Norfolk in 2022.  Pretty comparable to Westburg and Cowser in 2023 in Norfolk.

Stowers, 2022 - 25.5%

Westburg 2023 - 25.1%

Cowser 2023 - 22.3%

Not including todays game.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by RZNJ

[Aristotelian]

35 minutes ago, Os4days said:

As for your statement about Stowers and his patience at the plate… he struck out at a 30% clip in 2022 in the minors. That’s Adam Dunn patience. 

Strikeouts are not a great indicator of patience. 2014 Mike Trout led the league in K's and had 26.1 K%, but saw 3136 pitches. Adam Jones has a lower career K% than Trout but never saw more than 2500 pitches in a year.

[Pickles]

1 hour ago, Big Mac said:

If you don't like the cherry picking we can also go with the .665 career OPS for Mateo.  Maybe Ortiz can't top that as a rookie, but I'd call it a coin flip.  Ortiz's OPS over 4 major league games is irrelevant. 

How about we use Mateo's Orioles career? He's got a .684 and 92 OPS+.  You're also not factoring in that Ortiz is almost certainly not the defender, and certainly isn't the baserunner, that Mateo is.  I, for one, don't think it's a coin flip at all.

How many people thought it was a coin flip that Gunnar was better than Urias?  So far, they'd have lost.

Again, people are dramatically overestimating the adjustment difficulties and period that most rookies face.

And cherry picking Mateo's last 10 games is a terrible argument against that.