World Series Credibility Issue

[Sports Guy]

12 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Football is a different beast, a 16/17 game season does and should not carry the value/importance of a 162 game season

 

Of course it should. It’s all relative.

[webbrick2010]

4 minutes ago, Low Country Bird said:

I simply don't see how a world series champion could be considered "illegitimate."   Those teams are playing by the same rules as every other team and managed to win 13 games (in the current format) against the four of the top twelve teams in the league before anyone else did.  I certainly wouldn't have considered an Orioles title in 12 or 16 as illegitimate had we won the WS.  

Perhaps another way to couch my premise is:

Do you consider the World Series champion to be the best team of that year?

or 

are they just the winner of the post season tournamament, best team in the post season.

and what if we opened it up to all 32 teams (NBA like), and a less than .500 team wins the World Series?

[dystopia]

The Nationals won their division 4 times and never made it past the division series. They won the WS after squeaking in on a WC. Baseball has been like this for a while. 

[MacAdoo]

I’ve been ignored and scoffed at when I present this format before here and to others but it’s the only way I see to truly reward the best regular season teams for actually coming out on top in the most grueling regular season in professional sports *and* continue to allow multiple wildcard teams in the postseason (which we all know isn’t going away. If anything, more teams will be added):
 

The higher seeded team enters each series with a 1-0 advantage. That means they only have to win two before the lower seeded teams wins three in a five game set and three before the lower seeded team wins four. It reverts then to a balanced best of seven in the WS.  This is a supreme reward for grinding out 162 games yet gives the lower seeded teams a real opportunity to still win a championship.

Until then I expect to see teams with a bye continue to struggle the division series round under the current format. Baseball is a rhythm and routine game. Anything more than two or three days off completely breaks the rhythm and routine. 

[banks703]

8 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Perhaps another way to couch my premise is:

Do you consider the World Series champion to be the best team of that year?

or 

are they just the winner of the post season tournamament, best team in the post season.

and what if we opened it up to all 32 teams (NBA like), and a less than .500 team wins the World Series?

The definition of the best in this context really doesn't apply. The goal for every team, every year since the inception of the World Series, is to win the World Series. Will I think that the DBacks are the best team in baseball if they win it? No but wgaf? I would take sneaking into the playoffs every year if it means that the O's win a World Series during this window they have with the current core guys. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by banks703

[spleen1015]

This is a you problem. 

[btownoriole]

1 hour ago, Low Country Bird said:

Does that mean the Ravens' 2000 Super Bowl was illegitimate?

The 2000 Ravens were 12-4, which was tied for the 2nd best regular season record in the entire league that year.

[Griffey]

I did some quick math and it's possible there is an error in here, but I took a look at how often the team with the best record in each league made/won the World Series by era.  Here's what I came up with:

Pennant era (pre-1969) - Obviously, the teams with the best records made and won the Series 100% of the time.

Divisional era (1969-1993, excluding 1981) - 60% of the teams with the best record in their league made the Series, and 63% of the WS winners had their league's best record.

Wild card era (1995-2023, excluding 2020) - 36% of the teams with the best record in their league made the Series, and 39% of the WS winners had their league's best record.

It goes without saying that the more teams and rounds you throw into the playoff mix the harder it is for everyone to advance, but this illustrates how seldom the "best" team wins the WS these days.  One of the things that I've always loved about baseball is having to prove yourself every day for 6 months.  The current post-season tournament certainly waters down the import of that considerably.

That being said, it's not going away, so we need to figure out a way to make it happen in the post-season.  As others have said, if you consistently make the post-season, the hope is that you'll eventually win it all.

[dystopia]

Ideally there’s no divisions and two leagues, like pre-1969, and the WS is like 11 games instead of 7. 

[Big Al]

7 hours ago, vab said:

Honestly, if the Orioles win the World Series as a wild card you're going to feel like it's illegitimate? 

Not illegitimate, but not nearly as sweet. 

[24fps]

Two leagues with two divisions each.  154 game season, one seven-game league championship series and the World Series and no more November(!!!) baseball.

[LA2]

5 hours ago, Griffey said:

I did some quick math and it's possible there is an error in here, but I took a look at how often the team with the best record in each league made/won the World Series by era.  Here's what I came up with:

Pennant era (pre-1969) - Obviously, the teams with the best records made and won the Series 100% of the time.

Divisional era (1969-1993, excluding 1981) - 60% of the teams with the best record in their league made the Series, and 63% of the WS winners had their league's best record.

Wild card era (1995-2023, excluding 2020) - 36% of the teams with the best record in their league made the Series, and 39% of the WS winners had their league's best record.

It goes without saying that the more teams and rounds you throw into the playoff mix the harder it is for everyone to advance, but this illustrates how seldom the "best" team wins the WS these days.  One of the things that I've always loved about baseball is having to prove yourself every day for 6 months.  The current post-season tournament certainly waters down the import of that considerably.

That being said, it's not going away, so we need to figure out a way to make it happen in the post-season.  As others have said, if you consistently make the post-season, the hope is that you'll eventually win it all.

Thanks for all the work on this. That 36% and 39% say a lot.

[LA2]

The pre-1969 system guaranteed the World Series was between the two league champions, but was too tough on most of the rest of baseball and its fans around the country. Packing it up after winning 90+ games of the 162--or 100 like the O's did in 1980--was frustrating in a financially unbalanced league.  A dogfight to the end between four teams like I witnessed in 1967--Yaz's Triple Crown Red Sox, Killebrew's Twins, Kaline's TIgers, and the great starting rotation of the scrappy White Sox (Peters, Horlen, Tommy John)--was a rarity. Being out of it a whole month or more before the end of the season generated immense boredom for the vast majority of teams and geographyv and, in the current context of fears of baseball losing its following, has to be avoided.

Why Houston manages to get through most or all of it time after time--I'd like to see a deep analysis of why.

Edited October 13, 2023 by LA2

[Jagwar]

I can't help but thinking this is a silly sour grapes thread. If the 1996 Orioles had managed to beat the Yankees and then beat the Braves in the WS that was illegitimate? If the 2012 Orioles had squeaked by the Yankees and beaten the Giants it would have been illegitimate? If Britton actually pitches in the WC game against Toronto and somehow wins it all it's illegitimate?

Preposterous. We all would have been dancing in the streets for days. Wild Card teams aren't in it just to lose to the teams with the best records. They are there because they have a chance to win the whole shebang. 

[Malike]

32 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

I can't help but thinking this is a silly sour grapes thread. If the 1996 Orioles had managed to beat the Yankees and then beat the Braves in the WS that was illegitimate? If the 2012 Orioles had squeaked by the Yankees and beaten the Giants it would have been illegitimate? If Britton actually pitches in the WC game against Toronto and somehow wins it all it's illegitimate?

Preposterous. We all would have been dancing in the streets for days. Wild Card teams aren't in it just to lose to the teams with the best records. They are there because they have a chance to win the whole shebang. 

I agree with this. I do think the penalty isn't strong enough for WC teams, though. You can still pitch your Ace rested twice in a 5 game series and that shouldn't be a thing. The break is longer than the stupid all-star break, it's too long in my opinion, and not just because it might cool a team off or whatever, it gives the WC an advantage as well and there should be a penalty.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Malike