Give'em Hell, Roy!

[TakebackOPACY]

Roy Oswalt is my new favorite non-Oriole!

When you think steroids aren't that bad, I understand where you're coming from. There are a lot worse things out there. When you read that maybe if used correctly and not 'abused', they're not even proven to be harmful, I'm open to the discussion and/or debate and willing to learn more.

But when you put yourself in the shoes of the guys who have the choice of either taking illegal steroids or competing on an uneven playing field, I hope it makes it easy for you to understand why I hate steroids. Some of these guys robbed millions of dollars and a lifetime of dreams-come-true from their own peers.

Somewhere out there are some guys who played for $1500 a month while a player with the same level of talent and work ethic or less cheated and made $50+ million.

Who's a better baseball player in his prime? Tike Redman or Matt Lawton? Are you sure?

“I feel that going out there natural against these guys that are taking the drugs is not fair to me. They’re already All-Star players and they’re taking drugs. That’s not fair for me. They’re cheating.”

The ultra competitive Oswalt’s anger over the steroids era was quite evident in his voice.

“They may have beaten you in the game where naturally they may not have been able to' date='” he said. “It may have cost me a win or my club not getting in the World Series. I don’t think it’s fair from my standpoint.

“Their numbers shouldn’t count. They should have their own record book, and it shouldn’t count. All the guys before us they’re cheating them. These guys from the past are in the Hall of Fame, and these guys (who are on steroids) are breaking their records. It shouldn’t count. It’s not fair.[/quote']

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/6256990.html

[MikeAD]

But when you put yourself in the shoes of the guys who have the choice of either taking illegal steroids or competing on an uneven playing field, I hope it makes it easy for you to understand why I hate steroids. Some of these guys robbed millions of dollars and a lifetime of dreams-come-true from their own peers.

Somewhere out there are some guys who played for $1500 a month while a player with the same level of talent and work ethic or less cheated and made $50+ million.

Who's a better baseball player in his prime? Tike Redman or Matt Lawton? Are you sure?

Ok yeah, for every millionare roid user there is a guy making next to nothing to play a childs game. But also for every ARod there is a half dozen nothing players in AA Ball (like Gary Cates Jr) who got suspended for using.

For all we know everyone used, and thats how I will always view it. Him saying this means he will most likely get busted. Just a hunch, but if you're vocal, I'm going to say you were/are a user.

Why not?

[TakebackOPACY]

Ok yeah, for every millionare roid user there is a guy making next to nothing to play a childs game. But also for every ARod there is a half dozen nothing players in AA Ball (like Gary Cates Jr) who got suspended for using.

For all we know everyone used, and thats how I will always view it. Him saying this means he will most likely get busted. Just a hunch, but if you're vocal, I'm going to say you were/are a user.

Why not?

Sheffield was one of the most vocal players in favor of testing.

[MikeAD]

Sheffield was one of the most vocal players in favor of testing.

Thats my point.

Someone coming out attacking his fellow players has to be hiding something.

"when you are in the wrong, go towards never away from the cops"-Hunter S. Thompson

[Sports Guy]

I am so tired of hearing the players say this and then the union says no to the type of testing that actually matters.

Either put up or shut up.

[MikeAD]

I am so tired of hearing the players say this and then the union says no to the type of testing that actually matters.

Either put up or shut up.

This is a very good point, and one I had meant to bring up.

They have the power to change the system....wonder why the don't :scratchchinhmm:

Sort of like when ownership complains about the Sox/Yankees spending too much money. Well..spend more.

[sakata_catching]

Looking over some of the numbers players have thrown up in Houston during Oswalt's career, I'm fairly certain he's also been the beneficiary of a PED-enhanced hit or two.

This is an incredibly myopic argument.

[Dipper9]

This is a very good point, and one I had meant to bring up.

They have the power to change the system....wonder why the don't :scratchchinhmm:

Sort of like when ownership complains about the Sox/Yankees spending too much money. Well..spend more.

I don't know about the drug testing, but as for the Yankees spending, the line has been crossed. Not even the Red Sox spent money this year. It was 46% Yankees. The Yankees spending spree has opened the eyes of the other 29 teams, and I bet this is addressed in the next agreement.

[Dipper9]

Looking over some of the numbers players have thrown up in Houston during Oswalt's career, I'm fairly certain he's also been the beneficiary of a PED-enhanced hit or two.

This is an incredibly myopic argument.

Oswalt may not have said it correctly, but I understand his point. He is playing in an era where everyone now says the game is tainted, everybody is guilty until proven innocent, etc. These are not fair statements to make to the men who DID NOT take steroids, the men who played the game cleanly. Why do we give Cal and Gwynn a free pass? Everyone who played the game fairly during this "steroid era" will never be able to prove that they played it clean. They will be lumped in with all the rest of the abusers. That is what Oswalt is saying is not fair. And he and others like him have every right to be angry at their fellow players, and the Union for not agreeing to a harsher testing program.

[sakata_catching]

Oswalt may not have said it correctly, but I understand his point. He is playing in an era where everyone now says the game is tainted, everybody is guilty until proven innocent, etc. These are not fair statements to make to the men who DID NOT take steroids, the men who played the game cleanly. Why do we give Cal and Gwynn a free pass? Everyone who played the game fairly during this "steroid era" will never be able to prove that they played it clean. They will be lumped in with all the rest of the abusers. That is what Oswalt is saying is not fair. And he and others like him have every right to be angry at their fellow players, and the Union for not agreeing to a harsher testing program.

And my point — perhaps not so well made, either — and what I'm becoming increasingly convinced of, is that, if steroid use was as rampant and pervasive as it appears to have been, the playing field in MLB was a lot more level than Roy-O or others would like us to believe.

[TyCobb]

And my point — perhaps not so well made, either — and what I'm becoming increasingly convinced of, is that, if steroid use was as rampant and pervasive as it appears to have been, the playing field in MLB was a lot more level than Roy-O or others would like us to believe.

Roy is the one that has to pitch to these monsters. Just looking at Roy's frame is enough evidence for me that the man didn't take steroids. The guy is like 6 foot and weights no more than 180 lbs.

[sakata_catching]

Roy is the one that has to pitch to these monsters. Just looking at Roy's frame is enough evidence for me that the man didn't take steroids. The guy is like 6 foot and weights no more than 180 lbs.

Quite. But I think it's fairly safe to presume he also benefited from having some of those monsters on his team, no?

[TyCobb]

Quite. But I think it's fairly safe to presume he also benefited from having some of those monsters on his team, no?

Oh I agree about that.

[zff4]

Somewhere out there are some guys who played for $1500 a month while a player with the same level of talent and work ethic or less cheated and made $50+ million.

With all due respect, there's not. Steroids don't turn a A or AA player into an MLB player. While no one has quantified the actual benefit in the sense you are talking about, they do enable a player to reap the benefit of a more "efficient" training regiment. The regimen might be called more efficient because the player can train longer and harder and with shorter rest periods. They still have to train. But if you don't have the skills, no work-out regimen is going to give them to you.

[TakebackOPACY]

With all due respect, there's not. Steroids don't turn a A or AA player into an MLB player. While no one has quantified the actual benefit in the sense you are talking about, they do enable a player to reap the benefit of a more "efficient" training regiment. The regimen might be called more efficient because the player can train longer and harder and with shorter rest periods. They still have to train. But if you don't have the skills, no work-out regimen is going to give them to you.

Sorry, $2150 per month.

EDIT: Obviously there's a touch of hyperbole here. $2150 is the minimum 'AAA' salary and a common salary for a guy in his first year at 'AAA'. Obviously a lot of guys also got worthwhile signing bonuses. And guys on the 40-man roster are making more than the minimum, and many others make a little more than the minimum. And the '$50+ million for a guy with equal skills' refers to the hypothetical fringe player who then also had a fluke year and was signed to a bad contract (from the team's perspective) in an era of crazy foolish contracts. Then again, that $2150 is only for about 7 months of the year.