Jump to content

Elias: Holliday on OD roster is “definitely a strong possibility”


Sports Guy

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Wait until June…gain the extra year and likely don’t lose the year like you did Adley because it’s not which games played. 
 

That’s the best way to maximize his value.

So then this would be kind of the opposite of being on the OD roster. 
 

Elias says he’s got a shot at the OD roster but of course he’s going to say that.  He wouldn’t NOT say that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

Hm, I feel like we've heard "definitely strong possibility" language from Elias before about stuff that never happened.  Can't put a finger on specific examples though. All I get out of that is that it hasn't been ruled out, which I guess is something. 

I wish you’d put your finger on it because that would both be interesting and refresh my memory.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess my point is he has nothing to gain by saying this except not putting him on the roster and pissing everybody off. To me, at this point if he plays well in spring training he will make it. Now defining “well” is probably the next thing to figure out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Spy Fox said:

It’s also consistent with how Grayson was handled last year. 

And, I think, consistent with how Adley would have been handled the year before if not for his injury. 

Adley was clearly going to be better than his competition.  It’s not as clear that Holliday is ready to be better than the guys he’ll be competing with.  But he’ll have the chance to prove that he is.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Adley was clearly going to be better than his competition.  It’s not as clear that Holliday is ready to be better than the guys he’ll be competing with.  But he’ll have the chance to prove that he is.  

Now, can someone ask him the same question about Mayo?   One would assume that if Holliday makes the team, most of his time is at 2B and SS with Henderson at SS and 3B and Westburg at 2B and 3B.   Does that leave enough time for another player like Mayo or do the O’s rotate Ortiz or Urias into the mix in a lesser utility role?

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The real question is what does Elias have to gain by being consistent about this? Is he making sure teams know that Westburg, Ortiz and Norby are available? One would think teams already should know this.

Elias is calculated and smart. There is an ulterior motive to "show" his cards like this. This in an organization that treats an injury on a FCL player like it's a state secret. Why so open about their plans for Holliday? 

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe for a second Holliday will make this team on OD unless Westburg AND Ortiz are moved this offseason, but it does make me ponder the why, more than taking anything else out of these statements.

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

Now, can someone ask him the same question about Mayo?   One would assume that if Holliday makes the team, most of his time is at 2B and SS with Henderson at SS and 3B and Westburg at 2B and 3B.   Does that leave enough time for another player like Mayo or do the O’s rotate Ortiz or Urias into the mix in a lesser utility role?

I think Mayo is trade bait for a high end acquisition.  They aren’t gonna trade Holliday or Basallo, if they want a legit stud player it’s going to cost and I think Mayo is the price.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, SilverRocket said:

I just don't think there's any way they'd have promoted him that quickly if they're thinking August to preserve rookie status. June to get the extra year, sure.

What if they felt he needs AAA PAs to really develop? Each player is different and maybe they felt it doesn't make sense to keep him at the lower levels because he can just dominate those kinds of players? 

Holliday very well may be promoted before August, but if there's no need on the big league club, it makes sense long term to give him that development time in AAA and financially for the club because it breaks his free agency up with Gunnar's by two years. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

I think Mayo is trade bait for a high end acquisition.  They aren’t gonna trade Holliday or Basallo, if they want a legit stud player it’s going to cost and I think Mayo is the price.  

I guess it depends on the “stud” player you’re talking about.   I don’t think Mayo or Basallo go anywhere.    I’d be surprised to see Westburg go too.   One of Cowser/Kjerstad and Norby/Ortiz and then even someone like Bradfield/Beavers should bring back plenty.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

The real question is what does Elias have to gain by being consistent about this? Is he making sure teams know that Westburg, Ortiz and Norby are available? One would think teams already should know this.

Elias is calculated and smart. There is an ulterior motive to "show" his cards like this. This in an organization that treats an injury on a FCL player like it's a state secret. Why so open about their plans for Holliday? 

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe for a second Holliday will make this team on OD unless Westburg AND Ortiz are moved this offseason, but it does make me ponder the why, more than taking anything else out of these statements.

 

Maybe Elias is trying to sell season ticket?   Having the minor league player of the year on the team may put some butts in seats.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

I think Mayo is trade bait for a high end acquisition.  They aren’t gonna trade Holliday or Basallo, if they want a legit stud player it’s going to cost and I think Mayo is the price.  

I think Mountcastle and O'Hearn go before Mayo.  Mayo could be a 35- 40 HR guy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I think Mountcastle and O'Hearn go before Mayo.  Mayo could be a 35- 40 HR guy.

The chances of Mayo going in a trade for a stud player is unlikely but plausible.  O’Hearn and Mountcastle wouldn’t be main pieces in such a trade.  Mayo could.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Posts

    • The same thing was happening was MacDonald was the DC and when Wink was the DC, that makes me put most of the blame on Harbaugh 
    • dWAR is just the run value for defense added with the defensive adjustment.  Corner OF spots have a -7.5 run adjustment, while CF has a +2.5 adjustment over 150 games.    Since Cowser played both CF and the corners they pro-rate his time at each to calculate his defensive adjustment. 
    • Just to be clear, though, fWAR also includes a substantial adjustment for position, including a negative one for Cowser.  For a clearer example on that front, as the chart posted higher on this page indicates, Carlos Santana had a +14 OAA — which is the source data that fWAR’s defensive component is based on. That 14 outs above average equates to 11-12 (they use different values on this for some reason) runs better than the average 1B.  So does Santana have a 12.0 defensive value, per fWAR? He does not. That’s because they adjust his defensive value downward to reflect that he’s playing a less difficult/valuable position. In this case, that adjustment comes out to -11.0 runs, as you can see here:   So despite apparently having a bona fide Gold Glove season, Santana’s Fielding Runs value (FanGraphs’ equivalent to dWAR) is barely above average, at 1.1 runs.    Any good WAR calculation is going to adjust for position. Being a good 1B just isn’t worth as much as being an average SS or catcher. Just as being a good LF isn’t worth as much as being an average CF. Every outfielder can play LF — only the best outfielders can play CF.  Where the nuance/context shows up here is with Cowser’s unique situation. Playing LF in OPACY, with all that ground to cover, is not the same as playing LF at Fenway or Yankee Stadium. Treating Cowser’s “position” as equivalent to Tyler O’Neill’s, for example, is not fair. The degree of difficulty is much, much higher at OPACY’s LF, and so the adjustment seems out of whack for him. That’s the one place where I’d say the bWAR value is “unfair” to Cowser.
    • Wait a second here, the reason he's -0.1 in bb-ref dwar is because they're using drs to track his defensive run value.  He's worth 6.6 runs in defense according to fangraphs, which includes adjustments for position, which would give him a fangraphs defensive war of +0.7.
    • A little funny to have provided descriptions of the hits (“weak” single; “500 foot” HR). FIP doesn’t care about any of that either, so it’s kind of an odd thing to add in an effort to make ERA look bad.  Come in, strike out the first hitter, then give up three 108 MPH rocket doubles off the wall. FIP thinks you were absolutely outstanding, and it’s a shame your pathetic defense and/or sheer bad luck let you down. Next time you’ll (probably) get the outcomes you deserve. They’re both flawed. So is xFIP. So is SIERA. So is RA/9. So is WPA. So is xERA. None of them are perfect measures of how a pitcher’s actual performance was, because there’s way too much context and too many variables for any one metric to really encompass.  But when I’m thinking about awards, for me at least, it ends up having to be about the actual outcomes. I don’t really care what a hitter’s xWOBA is when I’m thinking about MVP, and the same is true for pitchers. Did you get the outs? Did the runs score? That’s the “value” that translates to the scoreboard and, ultimately, to the standings. So I think the B-R side of it is more sensible for awards.  I definitely take into account the types of factors that you (and other pitching fWAR advocates) reference as flaws. So if a guy plays in front of a particular bad defense or had a particularly high percentage of inherited runners score, I’d absolutely adjust my take to incorporate that info. And I also 100% go to Fangraphs first when I’m trying to figure out which pitchers we should acquire (i.e., for forward looking purposes).  But I just can’t bring myself say that my Cy Young is just whichever guy had the best ratio of Ks to BBs to HRs over a threshold number of innings. As @Frobby said, it just distills out too much of what actually happened.
    • We were all a lot younger in 2005.  No one wanted to believe Canseco cause he’s a smarmy guy. Like I said, he was the only one telling the truth. It wasn’t a leap of faith to see McGwire up there and Sosa up there and think “yeah, those guys were juicing” but then suddenly look at Raffy and think he was completely innocent.  It’s a sad story. The guy should be in Hall of Fame yet 500 homers and 3,000 hits are gone like a fart in the wind cause his legacy is wagging his finger and thinking he couldn’t get caught.  Don’t fly too close to the sun.  
    • I think if we get the fun sprinkler loving Gunnar that was in the dugout yesterday, I don’t think we have to worry about him pressing. He seemed loose and feeling good with the other guys he was with, like Kremer.
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...