Jackson Holliday spring training watch

[Sanity Check]

10 minutes ago, George Zuverink said:

And then there's the possibility Jackson might hit "really tough" LH better than Gunnar. Time will tell this and more.

That may be true, but I think the odds of Holiday in the lineup on opening day and Gunnar sitting if there is a really tough lefty starting against is zero.  Unless Gunnar is hurt and can't play.  Even then, if Gunnar is hurt and can't play against a tough lefty on Opening Day, you might see Holiday at 2B and Mateo at SS....even though many on here would hate to see that.

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

Elias said that if Holliday is on the roster in 2024, 2B is a big part of that equation. Knowing that, I don't get why you'd send him down to play SS.

Because I think SS is where he ultimately lands and getting more SS experience and improving his defense is a good thing.

But, he can also do that in the majors. The defense is what I’m using as an excuse to send him down and while it does need work, the service time is the larger issue.

 

[btdart20]

23 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Just a few thoughts for those who still think Hollidays chances are slim and none.

Elias hasn’t given himself any wiggle room here.  In his own words he said there’s a strong possibility that Holliday makes the OD roster and that Hyde will give him the opportunity to win the job.  He could have downplayed his chances, echoed Matt Blood’s comments, mentioned needing more time at 2B in the minors.  He did none of those things.  He essentially said  if Holliday looks like a ML starting 2B this spring he’s got the job.  If Holliday hits .350 and makes all of the plays how would Elias spin a demotion to Norfolk?   An even better question is why would he intentionally put himself in that spot by talking up Hollidays chances now?

Yeah, that's the way I'm interpreting Elias too.  It's Holliday's job to lose.  It's not about how well he has to hit/field.  It's about how low the bar is for him to hurdle.

 

[Just Regular]

10 minutes ago, interloper said:

First page Jeter comps is something another team's fan would come here and absolutely make fun of us about.

Its data driven.     Honestly Jeter doesn't even rate like Holliday because he couldn't command 1-1 as a high school infielder, and the talent curve is steepest in that section.

Also in 13th grade, Derek Jeter made 56 errors and Jackson Holliday made 11.

Edited February 9 by Just Regular

[Sports Guy]

Btw, to be clear, I obviously have no problem with starting Holliday on OD. That would be great. I have said all along he will be up quickly this year although I didn’t think OD was very likely but I believe I did say that was likelier than giving him the Gunnar treatment was.

And of course we don’t know what extension talks, if there are any, are like behind closed doors.  For all we know, Elias feels there is momentum to getting a deal done and part of this thought may be to have some good will with the player and not play the service time game.

[SteveA]

7 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

That may be true, but I think the odds of Holiday in the lineup on opening day and Gunnar sitting if there is a really tough lefty starting against is zero.  Unless Gunnar is hurt and can't play.  Even then, if Gunnar is hurt and can't play against a tough lefty on Opening Day, you might see Holiday at 2B and Mateo at SS....even though many on here would hate to see that.

The Angels have lefty starters -- Sandoval, Detmers, Anderson -- but I'm not sure any of them qualify as a "really tough lefty".

[Frobby]

59 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I just wrote an article for ESR and in the article, I posed this question and I’m curious as to what you guys think.

Tell me which scenario you feel is best(and for the moment, just take the idea of an extension off the board..I know everyone prefers that, so that’s not really a conversation worth having):

1) Holliday starts on OD. Assuming he’s never sent down, you have him for 6 years.

2) Holliday is sent down to gain the extra year but is brought up early to where he’s a super 2 guy (and maybe costs the team another 20-30M) and would accumulate enough time And at bats for the voters to really consider him a viable candidate for ROY (or at least top 2).

3) He stays in the minors until early June. At that point, he is likely past the super 2 date and plays and gets significantly less at bats than option 2, making it harder to get into the top 2 of ROY.

We are trying to win a very competitive division.  Put your best team on the field and don’t worry about service time.  Play Holliday a lot this spring and make a judgment as to whether our best roster for April has him on it - is he ready?  If the answer is clearly yes, he’s on the team.  If he’s borderline, then maybe you consider service time issues.  If he doesn’t look ready, then no.  I’ve been saying this all winter.  

[Just Regular]

10 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

That may be true, but I think the odds of Holiday in the lineup on opening day and Gunnar sitting if there is a really tough lefty starting against is zero.  Unless Gunnar is hurt and can't play.  Even then, if Gunnar is hurt and can't play against a tough lefty on Opening Day, you might see Holiday at 2B and Mateo at SS....even though many on here would hate to see that.

We will probably see Reid Detmers....

The facial expressions and body language on that one could maybe only be rivaled by Cal mad at Manny Alexander being picked off, or Grayson promoting his Norfolk Tides bobblehead in May 2023.

[Just Regular]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

We are trying to win a very competitive division.  Put your best team on the field and don’t worry about service time.  Play Holliday a lot this spring and make a judgment as to whether our best roster for April has him on it - is he ready?  If the answer is clearly yes, he’s on the team.  If he’s borderline, then maybe you consider service time issues.  If he doesn’t look ready, then no.  I’ve been saying this all winter.  

Same deal if Coby Mayo outplays Jordan Westburg?

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

Its data driven.     Honestly Jeter doesn't even rate like Holliday because he couldn't command 1-1 as a high school infielder, and the talent curve is steepest in that section.

Also in 13th grade, Derek Jeter made 56 errors and Jackson Holliday made 11.

Ahem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Jeter#Draft

Quote

The Houston Astros held the first overall pick in the 1992 MLB draft. Hall of Fame pitcher Hal Newhouser, who worked for the Astros as a scout, evaluated Jeter extensively and lobbied team management to select him.^[14] Fearing Jeter would insist on a salary bonus of at least $1 million to forgo college for a professional contract,^[14] they chose Cal State Fullerton outfielder Phil Nevin, who signed for $700,000.^[14] Newhouser felt so strongly about Jeter's potential that he quit his job with the Astros in protest after they ignored his drafting advice

 

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

We will probably see Reid Detmers....

The facial expressions and body language on that one could maybe only be rivaled by Cal mad at Manny Alexander being picked off, or Grayson promoting his Norfolk Tides bobblehead in May 2023.

Detmers has reverse splits for his career.  .765 against LH and .715 against RH.

[Aristotelian]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

We are trying to win a very competitive division.  Put your best team on the field and don’t worry about service time.  Play Holliday a lot this spring and make a judgment as to whether our best roster for April has him on it - is he ready?  If the answer is clearly yes, he’s on the team.  If he’s borderline, then maybe you consider service time issues.  If he doesn’t look ready, then no.  I’ve been saying this all winter.  

Sorry, I'd rather have the extra year of Holliday than a couple weeks of Holliday in April, even in a competitive season. We're talking about a year of a guy that could be a 5 WAR player. 

[RZNJ]

Just now, Just Regular said:

Same deal if Coby Mayo outplays Jordan Westburg?

A fair point.  It’s obvious by what hasn’t been said about Mayo and what has been said about Westburg that that competition isn’t really a thing. 

[btdart20]

15 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

All off season I've been saying I don't think Holiday makes the OD roster.  I want him to do so, but I think there are just too many factors that point to it not happening, from service time, inexperience at 2nd, few at bats against AAA pitching, etc etc.  Trading Ortiz made it more likely IMO, but then all the glowing talk about Mateo and the other IF we've brought in makes me feel like they are trying to set things up to have Holiday not around for at least a significant chunk of the year.  Yeah, I know what Elias has said, and I'm not saying he's wrong or lying, but in the end I think unless Holiday just COMPLETELY crushes things in spring, I expect him to start in AAA.

I've been saying the same thing in the off-season too.  Mostly playing the team control angle.  I was even saying that after the Burnes trade because it increased our playoff odds.  Plus Holliday's skills are more subtle than the eye-candy of HRs, SBs, or RBIs (not that votes are just on that, but they are a nice bump), so it's not even the ROY odds that sway me either (not that Elias agrees with my novice take either).

But Elias' comments convince me otherwise.  Holliday will need to be much worse than expectations in spring for him to not be in Baltimore.

[spleen1015]

Just now, RZNJ said:

A fair point.  It’s obvious by what hasn’t been said about Mayo and what has been said about Westburg that that competition isn’t really a thing. 

Elias said Westburg is established, so Mayo's not beating him out anymore than Cowser is beating Hays.