Jackson Holliday spring training watch

[Sports Guy]

I wonder if there will be any statcast info on his throws from SS this ST?  
 

He put on a lot of muscle. You wonder if he also worked on drills to make the arm strength better. I would guess he does.

Law is really out on a limb with this concept of him being better than Gunnar right now.

[sevastras]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

Have you ever tried telling your wife to go to the gym?

I don’t advise it.  

She does, that’s why she expects me to do the same. 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

I wonder if there will be any statcast info on his throws from SS this ST?  
 

He put on a lot of muscle. You wonder if he also worked on drills to make the arm strength better. I would guess he does.

Law is really out on a limb with this concept of him being better than Gunnar right now.

Law always likes to put out a few contrarian takes.  

I’ll definitely be playing close attention to Holliday’s defense when I get to some games in March.  With Gunnar out right now, he’ll probably get a bit more SS time than he would have otherwise.   The game I attended in Bowie last year while Holliday was there, he played 3B and I don’t think he made any throws.  
 

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, sevastras said:

She does, that’s why she expects me to do the same. 

My wife’s in way better shape than me, but she’s always the one to have some injury or medical issue, while I just cruise along on my regimen of taking long walks and playing softball.   

[OriolesMagic83]

16 hours ago, sevastras said:

I have no idea who the kid is that made the video and doesn’t really give any more info than what we already have but it is a very recent video(just a couple of days before he left for spring training) and Jackson looks very fit. 

 

Looks like the O's will miss out on Ethan Holliday, but I see there's a younger brother Reed.  What year will he graduate?  Draft all the Hollidays!  Jackson seems like a really chill guy.

[OriolesMagic83]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

Have you ever tried telling your wife to go to the gym?

I don’t advise it.  

Go to the gym together.  It's your chance to yell at her to get that last rep.

[banks703]

2 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Very good article in Baseball America today by J.J. Copper.

 

“No. 1 Prospect Jackson Holliday’s One Flaw”

Basically, it says he’s still a good SS but he tends to play closer to 3B to avoid having to make the backhanded play and throw.  He has soft hands, good range, and great instincts but right now his arm is “short for shortstop”.   Apparently statcast says his average throw from SS was 78 mph and his max throw was 83 while at Norfolk.   About 3 ML SS had a lower average (Nick Ahmed).  38 of 65 qualifying ML SS had a higher average throw than his max throw.

 

“By setting up in the hole, he ensures that he can fluidly field most ground balls with his momentum moving toward first base. Having watched dozens of plays, I realized that Holliday wants to play the ball on or to the left of his left foot if he can. With his range, positioning and anticipation, he generally does. He circles the ball to ensure he doesn’t have to backhand it, and he manages to do everything needed to avoid having to field a ball to the right of his right foot if at all possible.

By way of comparison, Orioles shortstop Gunnar Henderson fields more balls to his backhand in a month than Holliday does in a season. Henderson is much more comfortable relying on his arm to make that play. Holliday relies on his feet and hands.”

 

 

I wonder if anyone on the board was writing this about him say, 6 or 8 months back... I wonder. 

[banks703]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Eric Longenhagen also had this to say:

“He also isn’t currently a big league-quality shortstop defender and definitely isn’t better than Gunnar Henderson is right now. Holliday played 20 games at second base in 2023 and that might be the path to an earlier debut for him, but he’s talented enough to project as a suitable shortstop within the next couple of years. His ability to make accurate throws from odd platforms is impressive, as are Holliday’s poise and internal clock. He’s most comfortable throwing on the move and often goes out of his way to do so even when it isn’t called for. Holliday lets a lot of choppers take an unnecessarily high hop, with the direction of that hop sometimes surprising him. He needs to do a better job of staying low and attacking this type of ball in play closer to the ground.”

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2024-top-100-prospects/

I don't mean to be an "I told you so" kinda guy (and I hope you know that I'm not writing that to you, you have extended appreciation to my input and I appreciate that) but this is almost literally the exact thing that I wrote about him and why I have been fiercely adamant that he ends up at second base. The combo of Gunnar's excellence at SS and Holiday's limitations (he is also a bit stiff in the hips for your ideal SS, bends too much to field vs. lowering himself via his legs among other things) is why I think Gunnar at SS and Holliday at 2B with Joey's exiting the org. 

 

 

[RZNJ]

21 minutes ago, banks703 said:

I wonder if anyone on the board was writing this about him say, 6 or 8 months back... I wonder. 

Touché.  I remember your eyewitness observations.

[banks703]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Touché.  I remember your eyewitness observations.

It's obviously a good problem to have if Holliday can improve to serviceable at SS but I just don't see it. The arm strength isn't the only thing that sticks out to me. I don't like his hips as a SS, I don't like how he bends at the waist to field groundballs.. I could keep going but we've beaten up this topic enough. I think we're having a different conversation about this altogether if Gunnar hadn't improved his consistency sooo much last year but he did.

JH will get better, no doubt. The sky is the limit for him but it'll be as a 2B or an eventual move to the OF. 

[Sports Guy]

37 minutes ago, banks703 said:

I wonder if anyone on the board was writing this about him say, 6 or 8 months back... I wonder. 

The problem isn’t that you said it then. The problem is you act as if that’s what it will be going forward. That you are all alone on.

[Sports Guy]

39 minutes ago, banks703 said:

I wonder if anyone on the board was writing this about him say, 6 or 8 months back... I wonder. 

The problem isn’t that you said it then. The problem is you act as if that’s what it will be going forward. That you are all alone on.

It certainly may turn out to be the case because you never know if the player will put in the necessary work but good luck finding someone that agrees with that and good luck finding anyone who doesn’t feel he will be a ML SS. 

Edited February 21 by Sports Guy

[sevastras]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The problem isn’t that you said it then. The problem is you act as if that’s what it will be going forward. That you are all alone on.

It certainly may turn out to be the case because you never know if the player will put in the necessary work but good luck finding someone that agrees with that and good luck finding anyone who doesn’t feel he will be a ML SS. 

When you have Gunnar Henderson on the team, I don’t believe Holliday moves him off SS.  If I’m reading baseball savant correctly, Gunnar averages 84 mph on his throws and topped at 90.2. I’m not saying Holliday isn’t special, I’m just saying Gunnar is the better fit at SS and Holliday is going to start the year at 2B. There are plenty of teams that Holliday would be there starting SS but the Os aren’t one. He may fill in there. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, sevastras said:

When you have Gunnar Henderson on the team, I don’t believe Holliday moves him off SS.  If I’m reading baseball savant correctly, Gunnar averages 84 mph on his throws and topped at 90.2. I’m not saying Holliday isn’t special, I’m just saying Gunnar is the better fit at SS and Holliday is going to start the year at 2B. There are plenty of teams that Holliday would be there starting SS but the Os aren’t one. He may fill in there. 

This is true..for 2024. We will see if this is true beyond that.

There is more to SS than just arm strength.  I doubt Holliday will ever have Gunnar’s arm strength, no matter how much he works on it. 

[banks703]

11 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The problem isn’t that you said it then. The problem is you act as if that’s what it will be going forward. That you are all alone on.

It certainly may turn out to be the case because you never know if the player will put in the necessary work but good luck finding someone that agrees with that and good luck finding anyone who doesn’t feel he will be a ML SS. 

Pretty sure that I've stated consistently that I feel that he will improve and that he can probably play there but that he's never going to be their top defensive option at a premier defensive position, on a team that has demonstrated their prioritization of defense up the middle.

It's ok that you were wrong about something. I know that's difficult for you to accept.