The 2024 Trade Deadline

[Chicago White Sox]

49 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

 

I mean, this is called negotiations.  They aren’t going to come out saying they were wrong on Spencer being an untouchable and he’s now very much available.  But yeah, if this were for real, then I’d call Cashman a prospect hugger as well.

[Chicago White Sox]

42 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Yeah, Mr. @Chicago White Sox was practically drooling over the possibility of a Spencer Jones package at one point.   Yankees still won’t trade him?   Must be that 37% strikeout rate in AA.  I guess he just needs some of that Aaron Judge special sauce.

Was I?  Obviously I liked him, can’t deny that, but pretty sure that I liked your potential headliners better.  That being said, it’s still a bit premature to write him off even if he’s lost a lot of the helium surrounding him.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I mean, this is called negotiations.  They aren’t going to come out saying they were wrong on Spencer being an untouchable and he’s now very much available.  But yeah, if this were for real, then I’d call Cashman a prospect hugger as well.

Here’s the thing though..none of them are prospect huggers.  That’s meant to be some shot at these guys.

It’s an incredibly uneducated and stupid thing to call these GMs and the people that do it don’t seem to understand payrolls, salary, service time, etc…it wreaks of ignorance.

 

[Roll Tide]

51 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Yeah, Mr. @Chicago White Sox was practically drooling over the possibility of a Spencer Jones package at one point.   Yankees still won’t trade him?   Must be that 37% strikeout rate in AA.  I guess he just needs some of that Aaron Judge special sauce.

The rationale is comical 

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Here’s the thing though..none of them are prospect huggers.  That’s meant to be some shot at these guys.

It’s an incredibly uneducated and stupid thing to call these GMs and the people that do it don’t seem to understand payrolls, salary, service time, etc…it wreaks of ignorance.

 

I’m sorry, where did you say you studied prospect valuation?  If you’re going to say I lack “education” on this subject, I’d love to know how you become an expert.

I think it’s very fair to call certain GMs prospect huggers.  I fully understand the parameters in which Elias has to work with.  But at some point you got to push some chips in before the window comes to a close.  Burnes was a good first step, but you still lack the pitching needed to optimize your chance of winning a World Series with this core.  Refusing to trade Basallo under any circumstance let’s say, because you’re worried about who will eventually replace Rutschman is silly to me.  Doesn’t mean you do something dumb, but you can’t be afraid to take a big swing when you have all the other pieces in place.  And if I were Elias, I’d be looking to spin Basallo or Mayo for a controllable TOR starter to help anchor my rotation for the next couple of years and maximize my chances for a World Series.  We’ll see if he takes that shot or goes in a more passive direction.

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

The rationale is comical 

What rationale?

[Roll Tide]

17 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Oh my board certainly bashed him, some of which I’d agree was poor knowledge of the players and some of which was simply them trolling Sports Guy, but I always liked Ortiz and stated that from day 1 here (just discounted his value to us some due to his age).

Noted …. The Homerism is off the charts. Look we lived through a sell off and rebuild. We watched our front office diddle daddle too long with Machado. We don’t see the warts that we are selling but are overly critical about what we are buying. 

[Just Regular]

Starting to scan the Cubs with them coming to town, I was reminded Hector Neris only got a 1-year deal - the 2025 is a club option.

Starting today Neris at 32 games pitched and 20 games finished is a little behind the pace necessary to guarantee that $9M next year although as an Oriole rental he would figure to be often used.    

Hector Neris rhp
1 year/$9M (2024), plus 2025 option

• 1 year/$9M (2024), plus 2025 club option
  • signed by Chicago Cubs as a free agent 1/27/24
  • 24:$9M, 25:$9M club option
  • 2025 becomes a player option if Neris has 60 games pitched or 45 games finishedfinished in 2024, is not injured for the final game of the 2024 season and does not have a significant injury

[justD]

I haven't read enough of the thread to know if this has already been discussed and panned, but why not consider trading for Crochet to use as a middle relief/setup guy this season, then keep him for next year as a starter? Solves the innings issue and shores up next year's rotation should we lose Burnes. 

Don't flame me too badly.  Simply getting someone like Tanner Scott to fill that void will make me pull my hair out, and in my opinion, bullpen woes are at least an equal (if not greater?) concern to starting pitching right now.

[Sports Guy]

39 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m sorry, where did you say you studied prospect valuation?  If you’re going to say I lack “education” on this subject, I’d love to know how you become an expert.

I think it’s very fair to call certain GMs prospect huggers.  I fully understand the parameters in which Elias has to work with.  But at some point you got to push some chips in before the window comes to a close.  Burnes was a good first step, but you still lack the pitching needed to optimize your chance of winning a World Series with this core.  Refusing to trade Basallo under any circumstance let’s say, because you’re worried about who will eventually replace Rutschman is silly to me.  Doesn’t mean you do something dumb, but you can’t be afraid to take a big swing when you have all the other pieces in place.  And if I were Elias, I’d be looking to spin Basallo or Mayo for a controllable TOR starter to help anchor my rotation for the next couple of years and maximize my chances for a World Series.  We’ll see if he takes that shot or goes in a more passive direction.

You don’t seem to get it. Mayo and Basallo aren’t just prospects. These guys are upper echelon elite offensive talents that have usually been at the top of their leagues offensively while also being very young for their league.

They have elite statcast numbers while also maintaining decent K rates and good BB rates. Defensively there are certainly some question marks but both players have elite arm strength and are certainly not poor defenders you are trying to squeeze into a position somewhere.

You rarely see elite talents traded. Elite talents are hard to get. If this was a 2-3 years ago, you guys would have been arguing about how we should trade Gunnar and that by not doing it, we are prospect hugging.  It’s just a stupid discussion point.

Having an elite talent making no money is the holy grail of the sport. In a league where we see a ton of first year AS and several second time AS, we see things getting younger and younger. Teams are finally realizing that trading high end elite talent for older talent is just dumb. 
 

The Orioles showed the league in the offseason that they can still acquire elite talent without giving up their own elite talent. This deadline there is no elite talent available (assuming Skubal isn’t) that is definitely helping them in October. 
 

By the end of this year, the Os will have a much clearer picture of a lot of things and at that point, they can determine what to trade in the offseason. For now, they should look to move the middling guys of their franchise and get Scherzer or someone like that and get the relievers they need.

But under no circumstance should they even remotely consider trading elite talent for what is out there and I’m guessing Elias agrees with that thought. It’s not prospect hugging..it’s called being smart.

Edited July 8 by Sports Guy

[Bemorewins]

51 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m sorry, where did you say you studied prospect valuation?  If you’re going to say I lack “education” on this subject, I’d love to know how you become an expert.

I think it’s very fair to call certain GMs prospect huggers.  I fully understand the parameters in which Elias has to work with.  But at some point you got to push some chips in before the window comes to a close.  Burnes was a good first step, but you still lack the pitching needed to optimize your chance of winning a World Series with this core.  Refusing to trade Basallo under any circumstance let’s say, because you’re worried about who will eventually replace Rutschman is silly to me.  Doesn’t mean you do something dumb, but you can’t be afraid to take a big swing when you have all the other pieces in place.  And if I were Elias, I’d be looking to spin Basallo or Mayo for a controllable TOR starter to help anchor my rotation for the next couple of years and maximize my chances for a World Series.  We’ll see if he takes that shot or goes in a more passive direction.

I hope Elias does something big myself.

But if we are swimming at the deep end of the pool and going big game hunting, I would prefer Skubal over Crochet.

[Chicago White Sox]

14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You don’t seem to get it. Mayo and Basallo aren’t just prospects. These guys are upper echelon elite offensive talents that have usually been at the top of their leagues offensively while also being very young for their league.

They have elite statcast numbers while also maintaining decent K rates and good BB rates. Defensively there are certainly some question marks but both players have elite arm strength and are certainly not poor defenders you are trying to squeeze into a position somewhere.

You rarely see elite talents traded. Elite talents are hard to get. If this was a 2-3 years ago, you guys would have been arguing about how we should trade Gunnar and that by not doing it, we are prospect hugging.  It’s just a stupid discussion point.

Having an elite talent making no money is the holy grail of the sport. In a league where we see a ton of first year AS and several second time AS, we see things getting younger and younger. Teams are finally realizing that trading high end elite talent for older talent is just dumb. 
 

The Orioles showed the league in the offseason that they can still acquire elite talent without giving up their own elite talent. This deadline there is no elite talent available (assuming Skubal isn’t) that is definitely helping them in October. 
 

By the end of this year, the Os will have a much clearer picture of a lot of things and at that point, they can determine what to trade in the offseason. For now, they should look to move the middling guys of their franchise and get Scherzer or someone like that and get the relievers they need.

But under no circumstance should they even remotely consider trading elite talent for what is out there and I’m guessing Elias agrees with that thought. It’s not prospect hugging..it’s called being smart.

Your points are mostly fair, but I’m not proposing you trade six years of Mayo or Basallo for an expensive old vet.  You should be offering one of them up for someone like Skubal.  And yes, Basallo & Mayo have elite offensive profiles, but both could end up at 1B / DH so let’s not compare them to Gunnar.  It’s not like I’m here telling you to trade Holliday.

If you don’t go that route, your options are either less impactful SP additions or using Kjerstad in a similar manner as Ortiz and buying a high end guy with limited control.  Personally, I thing you’re better off cashing in on Basallo or Mayo and better balancing your major league roster for the next handful of years than the other options.  I mean, it seems like you are gong to need to add multiple arms for 2025 and burning through a lot of prospect capital on rentals is going to make that even harder to pull off.

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

I hope Elias does something big myself.

But if we are swimming at the deep end of the pool and going big game hunting, I would prefer Skubal over Crochet.

And that’s totally fair.  Skubal is a much safer pitcher and he’s a guy I’d make a big offer for.  He potentially gets you three bites at the apple, which is the window you guys should be focused on.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Your points are mostly fair, but I’m not proposing you trade six years of Mayo or Basallo for an expensive old vet.  You should be offering one of them up for someone like Skubal.  And yes, Basallo & Mayo have elite offensive profiles, but both could end up at 1B / DH so let’s not compare them to Gunnar.  It’s not like I’m here telling you to trade Holliday.

If you don’t go that route, your options are either less impactful SP additions or using Kjerstad in a similar manner as Ortiz and buying a high end guy with limited control.  Personally, I thing you’re better off cashing in on Basallo or Mayo and better balancing your major league roster for the next handful of years than the other options.  I mean, it seems like you are gong to need to add multiple arms for 2025 and burning through a lot of prospect capital on rentals is going to make that even harder to pull off.

There are no difference makers available worthy of giving up elite talent.

Mayo could end up in RF some…Basallo being the back up C is an enormous roster advantage over every other team in baseball.

You don’t win with middling talent…you win with elite talent. I’m not trading elite talent unless I get back real controllable elite talent back.

The Os can obtain players they need to help them win by not trading those guys.

[Roll Tide]

https://www.soxtalk.com/forums/topic/118987-elias-didnt-shutdown-trade-of-holliday/