AM, Penn/Andino and Eaton

[Jdan14]

To give my two cents,

I would rather of seen Penn get a shot again instead of Eaton. I mean why not? What do you lose? The middle infielder we traded him for? Who may not be on the team next year or the year after? Why not give a young guy a shot. With that said, it doesn't matter much because Penn (due to how hard he was hit) proved in ST he is a very good batting practice pitcher. Maybe he can strike a deal with the MLB to be the official batting practice pitcher during the Homerun Derby.

I do not know anything about Eaton as a person, so the "vet presence" does not mean anything to me either way. Maybe he works very hard and can teach his work ethic to the younger guys. Maybe is was just a default nice thing to say about a guy who is on your team. Ripping a player on your team is just immature and in-human. I hate watching Ozzie in Chicago rip on players. Not that I am sensitive, but it mars team chemistry. You need good team Chemistry to have a wining team. As we saw with the Ravens when the locker room divided, Billick was fired and the Ravens lost a lot of games with a talented team. Saying bad things about Eaton could possibly spark a bad thing in the locker room. Let Eaton get his 5 starts in and then make room for Hill/any other young guy.

As far as DT goes,

I never understood why Ramon did not get benched. He showed no respect for the team. I hate that players who are paid a bunch are not benched. You can not control anymore what you are paying the man so if he sucks then bench him and play the better player. I do like DT and think he holds his team accountable for their performance, just not publicly. I would lose a lot of respect for him if he today said "Adam was just throwing meatballs out there. I mean he really couldn't keep the ball in the park. He stunk it up didn't he." I am sure if AE comes out and throws the same in his next start, DT will say something to him. Plus, I am sure he went to Krantz and said find a problem because there are many, and fix it.

Now, to get back on topic,

AM did not go after Eaton as his top choice. Eaton is a legit back up plan if you play the numbers game. AM is a good judge of talent, I think the past trades and his resume warrant that. He clearly was not thinking Eaton is going to add a whole bunch of talent to this team. It was a numbers game and a back ups back ups back up plan.

Everyone, find a stress reliever, and suck it up next time AE walks to the mound because it will be over very soon.

[Cokeman]

I'd love you to say that to my face. I'd end you.

And I think I have to ask the moderators if this is the kind of dialogue that is accepted here? Is this the kind of site this place is?

I don't think it is, but maybe I'm wrong.

You wouldn't say that to my face I can guarantee you that- and if you did it would be the last thing you said for a while.

I don't think this kind of dialogue belongs here either...

[Frobby]

I am not sure if this has been mentioned on here or not but AM was interviewed, on the radio, before today's game.

The part I heard had to do with the Penn deal and Adam Eaton and I was really bothered by what AM had to say.

First I will talk about what he said about Penn/Andino:

1) He was going to out Penn on waivers and knew he was going to lose him.

2) The deal got done quickly...He called Beinfast up(he spoke with him about Penn earlier in ST) and asked if he had interest...He said he told Beinfast that he was going to waive him and that SD was likely claiming him and if he wanted Penn, then he was going to have to deal for him...Beinfast, at first, said no but called him back and said he was interested...Andino was mentioned and done deal.

Now, on Eaton....:

1) Had discussed Eaton with the Phils all offseason....They actually were targeting him.

2) Figured they would take their chances with him being put on waivers...They made the calculated risk that he would be waived and that we would have a chance to claim him.

3) Mentioned that he felt he threw the ball well in ST and that he had 19 starts last year..10 of which were QS.

Listening to this exchange, I was just disgusted by what AM had to say.

First of all, it tells me that the idea of stat analysis and things like that were totally ignored in the case of Adam Eaton.

Secondly, he mentioned how they brought in Hennessey and Parrish and how they wanted either them or Eaton to provide some kind of vert presence in the pen....Are you kidding me? Does he actually believe that?

He mentioned that Eaton was a high pick...Who the hell cares...Should we bring back Chris Smith as well?

And then, on top of all of this, he was willing to lose Penn for 20K so that he could keep this scrub on the team?

I like a lot of what AM has accomplished but this whole situation was a joke....The stupidity behind it is mind boggling to me.

(Btw, this is nothing against andino..im glad he actually got something for Penn but that's not the point here)

Let me say, first of all, that I was not in favor of the Eaton acquisition. That said, I don't know why this interview surprises you. I didn't red one thing here that MacPhail didn't say the day we acquired Eaton or the day we traded Penn. It's all a rehash.

But I take issue with this statement:

First of all, it tells me that the idea of stat analysis and things like that were totally ignored in the case of Adam Eaton.

Do you honestly think that the O's were unaware of Eaton's stats from the last few years, and did not take them into account? It's silly to think that's true. I'd put it the opposite way -- the Orioles saw something in Eaton that made them believe there was a decent chance he could outperform his stats from the last few years. And I don't have a problem with that -- I just have no earthly idea what it was they think they see in Eaton.

Now that said, I only watched sporadically yesterday, but I did not think he pitched as badly as his line indicates. 6 K's in 4 innings, and he was the victim of at least a few dink hits. Put it this way, he looked a lot better than Bass IMO.

As to losing Penn, I think the O's have decided that he's just not ready to pitch in the majors, period. We'll see if he proves them wrong, but there's a lot of evidence on their side.

[Sports Guy]

Do you honestly think that the O's were unaware of Eaton's stats from the last few years, and did not take them into account? It's silly to think that's true. I'd put it the opposite way -- the Orioles saw something in Eaton that made them believe there was a decent chance he could outperform his stats from the last few years. And I don't have a problem with that -- I just have no earthly idea what it was they think they see in Eaton.

No, i am saying despite what stats(and common sense) say, they decided to scrap that notion and go with the guy anyway...Why did they do that? Because he was a vet.

Now that said, I only watched sporadically yesterday, but I did not think he pitched as badly as his line indicates. 6 K's in 4 innings, and he was the victim of at least a few dink hits. Put it this way, he looked a lot better than Bass IMO.

Bass had 4 k's in 3 IP i believe...They both K'ed hitters yesterday.

As to losing Penn, I think the O's have decided that he's just not ready to pitch in the majors, period. We'll see if he proves them wrong, but there's a lot of evidence on their side

And Eaton is, right?

You are touching on my issue right there...The benefit of the doubt was given to the worthless vet.

[TiredofLosing20]

I don't think this kind of dialogue belongs here either...

Amen... that is too much.

I have to agree with SG on his basic premise or as some of you all call it his bias. To me, solely as a fan, it makes literally no sense to have Eaton starting over Penn, Waters or Pauley. Maybe there were some other underlying reasons that we do not know about that made this decision make more sense, who knows. I can see a case being made for having him start over Bergesen, Hernandez, and the other younger guys. I think this year should be about weeding thru our AAAA guys.

I don't think that AM was sitting in his office all offseason pining for Adam Eaton hoping and praying he would be waived. I think that there were probably tons of other players we were "targeting" as well. Eaton happened to become available.

I do think you can make a reasonable assumption that had Hill been healthy AND Penn or Pauley had pitched well in ST Eaton would not have been on this team. I think Eaton was a back up plan.

[SteveA]

I barely saw any of the game today...I was glued to Masters.

I saw some of the first inning where he had baserunners and got out of it...I think the same thing happened in the second...When I turned it back on, it was 4-0 and he was still pitching.

I believe he allowed 10 baserunners today...Yea, that's not good.

Its nice to see the 6 k's but Tampa was second in the AL in SO and were only 2 behind first...So, that is a team that will strike out a lot..Hell, even Bass had like 4 K's himself and he didn't exactly pitch well.

He also gave up a single with a man on third and Adam Jones threw out the runner at the plate. So if anything, he should have given up MORE runs than he did.

[Frobby]

You are touching on my issue right there...The benefit of the doubt was given to the worthless vet.

I look at it this way -- is it ALWAYS the case that a 24-year old unproven prospect is the better choice than the 31-year old who has proven himself to be a replacement-level major league player? You seem to think the answer is yes. But what happens when you watch them both pitch for several weeks and conclude that it's the 31-year old who has a better chance of success? Is that just impossible?

Where do Penn's stats fit in all this? 9.31 major league ERA, 5.06 ERA in pitcher-friendly Harbor Park, ERA over 10.00 this spring?

I think we have pretty much the same opinion on Adam Eaton, but you are more inclined to cling to the hope that Penn will become a decent pitcher. I'm more inclined to defer to the Orioles' opinion that Penn's never going to amount to anything, or even be as good as Eaton, which is an awfully low bar.

BTW, Penn has one appearance for the Marlins, 2 IP, 4 H, 1 BB, 3 R (all unearned), 4 K's. So far I'd call it a draw

[Mad Mark]

Man, this is a lot of bandwidth and personal heat to have expended on a guy who is nothing more than a saddle warmer for the cavalry.

[amateurfan]

Let me say, first of all, that I was not in favor of the Eaton acquisition. That said, I don't know why this interview surprises you. I didn't red one thing here that MacPhail didn't say the day we acquired Eaton or the day we traded Penn. It's all a rehash.

But I take issue with this statement:

Do you honestly think that the O's were unaware of Eaton's stats from the last few years, and did not take them into account? It's silly to think that's true. I'd put it the opposite way -- the Orioles saw something in Eaton that made them believe there was a decent chance he could outperform his stats from the last few years. And I don't have a problem with that -- I just have no earthly idea what it was they think they see in Eaton.

Now that said, I only watched sporadically yesterday, but I did not think he pitched as badly as his line indicates. 6 K's in 4 innings, and he was the victim of at least a few dink hits. Put it this way, he looked a lot better than Bass IMO.

As to losing Penn, I think the O's have decided that he's just not ready to pitch in the majors, period. We'll see if he proves them wrong, but there's a lot of evidence on their side.

Personally, I don't think they actually believed he would have a decent chance of outperforming his stats, but there's no way to know as a fan. Nevertheless, whatever their reasoning is, the statement that 10 of his 16 starts were QS is so ridiculous that it never should have been said publicly. If that is the real reason why they thought he would outperform his meaningful stats, well, that's really bad and we ought to be concerned. That does in fact mean the FO as a whole doesn't understand how to analyze stats, or which ones are important. Or, it means that they've discovered something knew which they intend to keep secret.

As I said before, though, I don't really believe that. Whatever AM's real reasons for acquiring and keeping Eaton (or at the least paying his salary when he gets released), if he doesn't want to be true about it, for our sake I hope he stops making statements like the one he did on the radio.

As a fan, I can't get interested in watching Eaton pitch. I'm no where close to getting excited to watch him. He will not get any better, and the team has little chance of winning when he's out there. In this situation, I don't think that maintaining fan interest and improving the team's chances of competing long term conflicted: Eaton should not be on the team. If he continues to pitch like yesterday, he's not even helping the team. All by himself he'll raise the number of innings the bullpen pitches.

As for Bass, I wish AM would have put him on waivers rather than trade Penn for Andino. Andino is not a difference maker on this team. I would much rather have Gomez or Jolbert Cabrera and Penn without Bass in the organization, than Bass and Andino. The key isn't so much that Penn is awesome, but that Bass isn't very good. For those who thought he earned his way onto the team with a strong spring, and Penn worked his way off, I think the idea that ST stats mean nothing is gaining more credence as every day of the regular season passes. Bass has been awful, Penn had one good outing, Guthrie has been very good, Baez has been good, etc.

[DrungoHazewood]

No, i am saying despite what stats(and common sense) say, they decided to scrap that notion and go with the guy anyway...Why did they do that? Because he was a vet.

Bass had 4 k's in 3 IP i believe...They both K'ed hitters yesterday.

And Eaton is, right?

You are touching on my issue right there...The benefit of the doubt was given to the worthless vet.

I don't know why you treat MacPhail's GM-speak any different than used car salesman-speak, or poitician-speak. He's putting a good face on some less than palatable choices he had to make. If you think they threw analysis out the window and just picked up Eaton because he's a veteran, I don't know what to tell you. Adam Eaton is on the team and Hayden Penn isn't because the consensus of all their scouts and analysts was that's who gives the O's the best chance to win over the time period they're necessary.

You may think that means the O's scouts and analysts are idiots, but you have no way of knowing what went into that decision.

Penn's dismissal was pretty strong evidence that they put a lot of weight on stats - he hasn't had anywhere close to stats befitting a major leaguer since 2006.

[DrungoHazewood]

Personally, I don't think they actually believed he would have a decent chance of outperforming his stats, but there's no way to know as a fan. Nevertheless, whatever their reasoning is, the statement that 10 of his 16 starts were QS is so ridiculous that it never should have been said publicly. If that is the real reason why they thought he would outperform his meaningful stats, well, that's really bad and we ought to be concerned. That does in fact mean the FO as a whole doesn't understand how to analyze stats, or which ones are important. Or, it means that they've discovered something knew which they intend to keep secret.

As I said before, though, I don't really believe that. Whatever AM's real reasons for acquiring and keeping Eaton (or at the least paying his salary when he gets released), if he doesn't want to be true about it, for our sake I hope he stops making statements like the one he did on the radio.

Again, why do you get wrapped up in parsing things GMs say on the radio? They're saying stuff that pass the smell test to casual fans. That's about it.

What, do you expect him to come out and say "Hayden Penn was done. His stuff and his approach and his durability were for crap. I would have been happy with a fungo bat for him, because he was going to get shelled even in a mopup role. Then, when 45 pitchers got hurt, we looked around and saw Eaton was available. Our scouts saw some stuff that indicated he might be fixable enough to get us five innings a start for a few months, even though he's probably going to pretty well suck. Such is life when you have 10 good pitching prospects, all of which require a bit more minor league seasoning."

Part of MacPhail's job is PR. He's not going to go on every radio interview and tell the fans to buck up, we just signed us a sucky pitcher to get us through the next couple months.

[Sports Guy]

I don't know why you treat MacPhail's GM-speak any different than used car salesman-speak, or poitician-speak. He's putting a good face on some less than palatable choices he had to make. If you think they threw analysis out the window and just picked up Eaton because he's a veteran, I don't know what to tell you. Adam Eaton is on the team and Hayden Penn isn't because the consensus of all their scouts and analysts was that's who gives the O's the best chance to win over the time period they're necessary.

You may think that means the O's scouts and analysts are idiots, but you have no way of knowing what went into that decision.

Penn's dismissal was pretty strong evidence that they put a lot of weight on stats - he hasn't had anywhere close to stats befitting a major leaguer since 2006.

Well, intelligent analysis couldn't have told them he was a worthwhile signing.

He was signed because AM hoped he would eat innings and because he has a track record..AM basically said this in his interview yesterday.

[Mackus]

Well, intelligent analysis couldn't have told them he was a worthwhile signing.

He was signed because AM hoped he would eat innings and because he has a track record..AM basically said this in his interview yesterday.

They "hoped" is the thing. Thats all they are doing with him.

They do not want the young guys up here this early. They are being very conservative with them. The only way they bring up any of them is if all the stop gaps completely suck (6+ ERA) and they are left with no choice.

They would rather see Adam Eaton pitch to a 5.75 ERA averaging 5.5 innings a start than see Bergesen or Hernandez or Patton up here earlier than they think they should be. If Eaton and the rest of the scrubs can't reach that 5.75 ERA and 5.5 IP/GS marks, and I'd give them about 3-4 starts to get there (Eaton won't get his 3rd start until April 26th) then they'll probably go with one of the younger guys earlier than they'd like to. But as long as the "vets" as you like to call them or "crappy guys" as I like to call them can pitch to a ~5.75 ERA and get 5-6 innings deep most times out, they'll be up here and the young guys will be in the minors for as long as the organization feels they should.

Now, if you are arguing that the organization shouldn't be so conservative with the young guys, that is a different argument (and one I'd have more agreement with). But you are basically saying that the reason Eaton is here is because he's a vet. That's not the case. He's here because he can breathe and throw a fastball and isn't someone who they care about developing. They tried to find the 3-4 best cheap guys to throw in the back end, we can also debate if they did or didn't accomplish that.

The entirety of this situation stems from their desire for Bergesen, Hernandez, and Patton to get more time in the minors (and even more time for the other guys further away than that group). It doesn't exist because MacPhail and Trembley "want veterans".

[Singleton]

I agree that you can't really hold too much stock in what a GM or player says in a public interview. There's too much spin going on to know what's the truth.

To me, Adam Eaton was a reasonable low-risk, some reward gamble. Because of that, I thought at the time it was a decent move given the team's situation.

So far between ST and regular season, he's pitched like crap. He'll probably get another start or two and if it continues, he'll be cut. That's the way it goes and I will still think it was a reasonable move at the time it was made.

As has been discussed over and over, Hayden Penn showed nothing the last few years since injury. AM believed if he waived him, he'd lose him so he chose to trade him for a young infielder who may turn into a decent utility guy. Nothing wrong with that.

[NewMarketSean]

I don't blame AM for wanting nothing to do with Penn. He had a chance to earn his way onto the team this spring and did nothing. His time was up and we got a player in return to fill a hole.

That said, I would still rather have Penn over Eaton. But both pitchers would have been gone by mid-season anyway. I don't believe Penn would have done much of anything to keep a spot for long.

And once Hill comes back, Eaton is probably the first to go if Hendrickson doesn't stink and Bergesen is right behind Hill as the next call-up even if Eaton isn't the first to go. So one way or another, there isn't much of a chance that Eaton lasts in BAL.

The QS thing AM used sounds like a way to justify Eaton's presence to fans when there is pretty much nothing else positive to say about him. I don't believe AM puts much stock into QS. It's like saying that a lemon has new tires on it.