What did DT do wrong tonight?

[midwest birdfan]

It doesn't matter about Chris Rays stats-DT has to use as many reliefers as possible during every game. He's never thought that Baez or Bass could pitch the last three innings of a game-that would make too much sense. The more pitchers you use-the better chance you have to lose. What would DT do if MLB enforced a new rule that relief pitchers had to face a minimum of 6 batters(unless its the ninth inning-would he retire or better management of the bullpen? If the Orioles win 90 games this yr-J Johnson and Sherrills arms are going to fall off because of DTs logic-they must pitch in every game in which there is a lead late in the game(unless they have pitched 3 days in a row).

[Mike B]

It doesn't matter about Chris Rays stats-DT has to use as many reliefers as possible during every game. He's never thought that Baez or Bass could pitch the last three innings of a game-that would make too much sense. The more pitchers you use-the better chance you have to lose. What would DT do if MLB enforced a new rule that relief pitchers had to face a minimum of 6 batters(unless its the ninth inning-would he retire or better management of the bullpen? If the Orioles win 90 games this yr-J Johnson and Sherrills arms are going to fall off because of DTs logic-they must pitch in every game in which there is a lead late in the game(unless they have pitched 3 days in a row).

You might want to check the box scores from the last 2 Orioles wins. Albers, JJ, Bass were unavailable today due to multiple innings. The idea of guys pitching one inning per outing did not originate with DT. The relievers arms are not going to fall off because DT wants to use 4 per game. The problem is our starters can not clear the 5th or 6th inning.

It is almost laughable when people complain about to many pitchers used in a game and then when he trys to bring Ray back for what amounts to a second inning, people ask why let Ray pitch the 7th??

[ccbird]

It doesn't matter about Chris Rays stats-DT has to use as many reliefers as possible during every game. He's never thought that Baez or Bass could pitch the last three innings of a game-that would make too much sense. The more pitchers you use-the better chance you have to lose. What would DT do if MLB enforced a new rule that relief pitchers had to face a minimum of 6 batters(unless its the ninth inning-would he retire or better management of the bullpen? If the Orioles win 90 games this yr-J Johnson and Sherrills arms are going to fall off because of DTs logic-they must pitch in every game in which there is a lead late in the game(unless they have pitched 3 days in a row).

How many managers have guys go more than 1 inning when they have a late lead. Everyone has a set up guy(s) who pitch late in games but it's usually 1 inning. Rarely do you see a '96 Mo Rivera type who is going 2 + innings consistently, especially in the American League.

Today just proves why DY feels he has to use the same guys over and over when we have a late lead. We have 3 guys who we should have any faith in late in games right now JJ, Baez, Sherrill. If DT doesn't bring these guys in the game when they are available he's going to be criticized for not giving his team the best chance to win. Of course we need more than 3 guys we can depend on late and that's something that we not only need to try and address now but most certainly in the future when we hopefully will be winning 80+ games a year. For now though DT hands are relatively tied and I fail to see how when he's in a position to win a game and his go to guys are available why you wouldn't go to them.

[hoosiers]

Again, Dave Trembley can only play the guys he has available to him.

I am a fan of Pedro's posts and this makes for a good soundbite, but what's really missing from this POV, IMO, is that DT burned through half the bp in the past few games.

How many bp options does DT need? Why can't DT steal an 8th or 9th inning away from JJ or GS to save one or both for another day? An inning does not get much easier than last night's ninth with Harris, Bard and Maxwell.

If Albers was available, why couldn't DT have used Albers, Baez and Hendrickson in a good order to close out today's game?

[srock]

Chris Ray's numbers

13 IP

23 Hits

10 walks

That's 33 baserunners in 13 innings. Time to pull the plug. The major leagues are no place to be getting your arm back into shape. His velocity is not all of the way back and worse than that, his location is worse than before the surgery as well. I'd guess his confidence isn't too good right now either. For the good of Chris Ray and the good of the team he needs to be sent down to Norfolk so he can get it together again.

Wilfredo Perez is doing well at AA, although his walk rate isn't pleasing me but it could be worse. He has the talent. I don't mind swapping him for Ray.

[now]

Hendrickson was already warming the inning (IIRC) before Ray came in. So I was shocked (not in a good way!) to see Ray get the call instead. Then to bring in Walker, Sunday afternoon and all, and it was like, game over (again, not in a good way). Walker has no business on this team (and it's been that way since, what, last May?). And I'd like to see Ray get straightened out in Norfolk, not in a 5-4 game.

Getting back to DT (instead of AM), Hendrickson is certainly not a guaranteed win, but better than Ray and Walker!

Well, maybe the poster is right who says DT may as well use who he has, so they can, in the immortal words of Sammy Perlozzo, "have a chance to fail." :scratchchinhmm:

[ccbird]

I am a fan of Pedro's posts and this makes for a good soundbite, but what's really missing from this POV, IMO, is that DT burned through half the bp in the past few games.

How many bp options does DT need? Why can't DT steal an 8th or 9th inning away from JJ or GS to save one or both for another day? An inning does not get much easier than last night's ninth with Harris, Bard and Maxwell

If Albers was available, why couldn't DT have used Albers, Baez and Hendrickson in a good order to close out today's game?

He burned through his bullpen to get two wins Friday and Saturday. If Albers, JJ, and Sherrill didn't pitch Sat night then yes you have them for today.Maybe Albers come on in the 7th today, JJ the 8th, and Sherrill the 9th and we win but that means someone else other than those guys would have had to do the exact same thing Saturday night. Right now, with those other options there is no way you should feel confident they would've got the job done. When his big three are available and we have a small lead to hold he really has to go to them if he wants a good chance to win the game. What difference does it make if they rested Sat instead of today. Sure there is something to be said for not pitching on back to back nights but there is no way DT knows Sat night that there will be a situation to use those guys Sunday afternoon. You have to manage for the most part in the moment, you can't worry too much about tommorow.

I know people are going to complain come August if and when JJ, Baez, and Sherrill wear down and point a finger at DT but again what can he do. He has to try and win the games he can win when he has a chance to win them. It doesn't matter if it's D.Johnson, Earl Weaver, T. Larussa, etc, etc if they only have 3 reliable arms in their pen they are going to lean on them and they will eventually wear down. As I said in my previous post, we need to find depth and guys we can have some confidence throwing in late game situations other than the big three.

[now]

we need to find depth and guys we can have some confidence throwing in late game situations other than the big three.

true.

Interesting how now in the bullpen there's a "big three," and in the minors a "Big Three," and pretty soon in the rotation a "little three" of Bergesen Berken and Hernandez ... and maybe (hopefully) before long, a "Bowie Four" of Bergesen Berken Hernandez and Tillman, who were 48-18 for last year's AA playoff team.

Loving the turnover, keep it coming!!!! :clap3:

[Fairfax Bird]

I am a fan of Pedro's posts and this makes for a good soundbite, but what's really missing from this POV, IMO, is that DT burned through half the bp in the past few games.

How many bp options does DT need? Why can't DT steal an 8th or 9th inning away from JJ or GS to save one or both for another day? An inning does not get much easier than last night's ninth with Harris, Bard and Maxwell.

If Albers was available, why couldn't DT have used Albers, Baez and Hendrickson in a good order to close out today's game?

Albers pitched two straight games. I think the move was to bring in Hendrickson to begin the 6th yesterday and let him pitch 2-3 innings. He has pitched well out of the pen and you let him start the inning. Trembley definitely mis-managed the pen a little yesterday, but again it should have been Hendrickson through the 8th and then Baez.

[Dr. FLK]

I know that 0 out of 30 major league managers would have done it, but it would have made much more sense to have Sherrill rather than Walker come in to get Adam Dunn with the bases loaded in the 7th today. The situation couldn't have been more high-leverage. You could have used Baez in the 8th and 9th if need be.

Maybe Trembley is trying to make a point to the front office: "If Walker is on the team, I'm going to use him against lefties in game situations...if he doesn't perform, it's your job to cut him."

When DT announced he was going to "close by committee", didn't he say he would start using guys in optimal matchups? If he had stuck with C-by-C a little longer (instead of immediately handing the job back to George), you would have brought in GS to face Dunn. Then, Johnson/Baez in the 8th and 9th.

There is absolutely no reason to use Ray and/or Walker in a winnable game at this point. If they are required to stay on the roster, they can pitch in mop-up duty. Neither one belongs in the major leagues.

[Fairfax Bird]

When DT announced he was going to "close by committee", didn't he say he would start using guys in optimal matchups? If he had stuck with C-by-C a little longer (instead of immediately handing the job back to George), you would have brought in GS to face Dunn. Then, Johnson/Baez in the 8th and 9th.

There is absolutely no reason to use Ray and/or Walker in a winnable game at this point. If they are required to stay on the roster, they can pitch in mop-up duty. Neither one belongs in the major leagues.

Neither was available yesterday. I get your point, use better match-ups maybe these guys are tired, but the pen did its job well for two straight days. I would have prefered Hendrickson yesterday to start the 6th.

[SilentJames]

Jees people, the only arms available yesterday were Ray and Walker. Everyone else had pitched multiple days/ innings in a row and considering the Orioles don't have a day off until June FOURTH you can't keep leaning on these guys.

[Dr. FLK]

Neither was available yesterday. I get your point, use better match-ups maybe these guys are tired, but the pen did its job well for two straight days. I would have prefered Hendrickson yesterday to start the 6th.

Why wasn't Baez available? He hadn't gone since Friday.

[Dr. FLK]

Jees people, the only arms available yesterday were Ray and Walker. Everyone else had pitched multiple days/ innings in a row and considering the Orioles don't have a day off until June FOURTH you can't keep leaning on these guys.

I think the problem that most people have is that Walker and Ray are still in the bullpen. Neither one has proven to be competent all year long. Maybe the other guys wouldn't be so overworked if we could replace those 2 with real pitchers.

[Fan4Life]

DT started his awful bullpen managing tonight when he took out Bergeson. Why managers take out their pitchers when the opposing team gets a dink/dunk base hit or 2 is beyond me. It's just stupid. That was the beginning to an ending that wasn't pleasant.