2010 Draft Position Race

[RandyM]

I disagree. Jacob Turner and Tyler Matzek were worthy as HS pitchers. Both have huge upsides. If the O's had taken a college player I could buy that argument. They took a player with lower upside than some guys that went later, but still have the risk associated with taking a high schooler.

They went cheap and that's fine. I'm not attacking them for it. They used the money saved to pay overslot on several lower picks. They're going quantity over quality.

You can make that exact same argument in why Pitt passed on Turner and Matzek. Pitt spent a lot on this years draft other than their first pick. Plus there is a brand new regime that took over that said they wouldn't skimp on draft money if they thought they deserved it. First year they took Alvarez, the next year they spent their money on hard signs.

I would say KC is a bigger spender than Pitt and us. They shelled out the big bucks to sign Hosmer and Moukakas. Both Pitt and us have Wieters and Alvarez. Guess you can include Loewen.

I personally would love to pick at least 3. I don't know if I want to go through the headache of Harper, but I guess it would be a nice problem to have. Harper is going to have so much leverage.

[RandyM]

They were asking for $6 mill. Thats what we paid for Wieters......Theres no comparison between Matzek and Wieters. The only pitcher with stuff and polish who was close to the premium price would be Matzek. apparently, Jordan saw something in Hobgood that made him believe Matzek wasnt worth $4mil more. If it were AJ Cole, the kid whose been thrown around with the names Beckett and Porcello, thats a different story, your paying that much money for a kid who may actually be worth the asking price.

But the problem was Matzek didn't get $4mil more than Hobgood. Matzek got $3.9 and Hobgood got $2.4. I think Colo got a steal, but that is another debate.

Turner did get $6.

[QBsILLEST1]

But the problem was Matzek didn't get $4mil more than Hobgood. Matzek got $3.9 and Hobgood got $2.4. I think Colo got a steal, but that is another debate.

Turner did get $6.

Colorado DID get a steal, but when a kids asking price is $6 mil and he has the leverage on his side, you have no way of guessing that he woulda signed for that price. IMO Matzek was going to sign regardless, and he knew that, but he wanted as much money as possible, the Rocks called his bluff and got him.....Nice move, but you can never count on that scenario occuring....

[allstar1579]

Colorado DID get a steal, but when a kids asking price is $6 mil and he has the leverage on his side, you have no way of guessing that he woulda signed for that price. IMO Matzek was going to sign regardless, and he knew that, but he wanted as much money as possible, the Rocks called his bluff and got him.....Nice move, but you can never count on that scenario occuring....

He bluffed hard enough to enroll in school and actually have to leave classes to sign. I questioned all these guys this year holding out for so much money because such a focus is being put on limiting the bonuses paid to these kids, there is no guarantee that they can get half of what they got this year, next year. In the end, he's still gotta pitch in COL, which I wonder what that is going to do to a guy that depends on the break of his breaking pitches. I think they need sinker ball pitchers there, I recall them not being interested in Bedard because they were afraid his curve wouldn't break as well there.

[RandyM]

Don't be so sure that the Nationals will take Harper. Stras alone won't sell tickets. The Nationals need a draw and Harper is at least 4-5 years away. After the headache of the Stras negotiations, I expect them to take one of the big college arms with the thought they would be in the OD rotation with Stras in 2012.

Do the Pirates take Harper? I really doubt it. Sanchez this year is proof enough to me that they won't spend big on somebody, despite the Pedro Alvarez selection.

Do the Royals take Harper? It's very possible.

Do the Orioles take Harper? Answer that one definitively and ESPN will give you a job.

My question is, why can't you say the same exact thing about Jordan not viewing Matzek or Turner worth the extra money about Pitt?

Saying Sanchez is proof enough that they won't spend money is saying that Hobgood is proof enough that the O's won't spend money.

Pitts spent as much as the O's did on late round draft picks this year.

Ever since the Wieters draft, the Pitts had a new GM come in Subsequently they have spent big money on Pedro and went with the same "approach" the O's did this year. Spend money on total number of prospects, instead of blowing your whole wad on one guy.

I do not want to debate whether Hobgood or Sanchez is the better prospect. Each organization thought each player was a good choice for the amount of money they were getting them in for and how quickly negotiations could get done.

[Crazysilver03]

But the problem was Matzek didn't get $4mil more than Hobgood. Matzek got $3.9 and Hobgood got $2.4. I think Colo got a steal, but that is another debate.

Turner did get $6.

Could that be because Matzek was selected 11th and not 5th?:scratchchinhmm:

[allstar1579]

My question is, why can't you say the same exact thing about Jordan not viewing Matzek or Turner worth the extra money about Pitt?

Saying Sanchez is proof enough that they won't spend money is saying that Hobgood is proof enough that the O's won't spend money.

Pitts spent as much as the O's did on late round draft picks this year.

Ever since the Wieters draft, the Pitts had a new GM come in Subsequently they have spent big money on Pedro and went with the same "approach" the O's did this year. Spend money on total number of prospects, instead of blowing your whole wad on one guy.

I do not want to debate whether Hobgood or Sanchez is the better prospect. Each organization thought each player was a good choice for the amount of money they were getting them in for and how quickly negotiations could get done.

No, PIT openly admitted to taking a signability pick so that they could allocate money to other places. BAL took Hobgood because they rated him the best on their board (like I said, they put a premium on character).

[QBsILLEST1]

No, PIT openly admitted to taking a signability pick so that they could allocate money to other places. BAL took Hobgood because they rated him the best on their board (like I said, they put a premium on character).

The importance of character gets undervalued not just here but nearly everywhere. I really enjoyed the OH article earlier today about character and how much it plays into performance.

[allstar1579]

The importance of character gets undervalued not just here but nearly everywhere. I really enjoyed the OH article earlier today about character and how much it plays into performance.

Yeah if anyone here has a chance to meet Matusz (autograph session or whatever) DO IT. You'll understand after 10 seconds, he's just such a great kid, you can't help but root for him.

[RandyM]

Could that be because Matzek was selected 11th and not 5th?:scratchchinhmm:

No, draft position in his case didn't make a difference. Jacob Turner got $5.5 and he was the 9th pick. Did draft position make a difference with Hobgood signing for $2.4?:scratchchinhmm:

[Crazysilver03]

No, draft position in his case didn't make a difference. Jacob Turner got $5.5 and he was the 9th pick. Did draft position make a difference with Hobgood signing for $2.4?:scratchchinhmm:

You have no way of knowing that.

[RandyM]

No, PIT openly admitted to taking a signability pick so that they could allocate money to other places. BAL took Hobgood because they rated him the best on their board (like I said, they put a premium on character).

Also did the O's. Do you really believe that the O's rated Hobgood the highest guy on their board even if you take into character? You can make the statement that Hobgood was their highest guy on the board if you incorporate signability, price, and "character".

I am all for picking Hobgood and signing others. But to say Hobgood was rated the highest on the board is tough to believe. Jordan had a budget and decided he would rather pick a signable guy he liked with the first pick and use the money later on. Lets agree on that.

Don't get me wrong I like Hobgood and the pick, but I have a hard time believing Hobgood was the highest guy on the board if you take away financial concerns and just incorporate stuff and character But hey what do we know .

I have to constantly ask myself, why do I get into debates with fans?

[allstar1579]

Also did the O's. Do you really believe that the O's rated Hobgood the highest guy on their board even if you take into character? You can make the statement that Hobgood was their highest guy on the board if you incorporate signability, price, and "character".

I am all for picking Hobgood and signing others. But to say Hobgood was rated the highest on the board is tough to believe. Jordan had a budget and decided he would rather pick a signable guy he liked with the first pick and use the money later on. Lets agree on that.

Don't get me wrong I like Hobgood and the pick, but I have a hard time believing Hobgood was the highest guy on the board if you take away financial concerns and just incorporate stuff and character But hey what do we know .

I have to constantly ask myself, why do I get into debates with fans?

Show me a quote where the Orioles said that. I can show you quotes adamantly denying it.

Yes I do think Hobgood was the highest on their board, because he was very slightly behind the main pack of HS pitchers, slightly enough that it's not a stretch he went where he did. Do you even know what he throws? Or how hard? How about Turner? Matzek? What is your basis of comparison?

Did you scout all these guys before the draft? Did you have a clue who Hobgood was before you heard we drafted him? Oh wait, I did, you aren't debating with a fan, you are debating with a scout.

[RandyM]

You have no way of knowing that.

Would have Rick Porcello gotten more than $7.29 if he was drafted earlier than the 27th pick? Would Cam Coffey (22nd) or Michael Ohlman (11nd) gotten more if they got drafted a couple rounds earlier? Think they got what a 2nd or 3rd rounder would have gotten. We aren't like the NBA with draft slotting no matter how much MLB tries to "recommend".

[TheBandit]

Would have Rick Porcello gotten more than $7.29 if he was drafted earlier than the 27th pick? Would Cam Coffey (22nd) or Michael Ohlman (11nd) gotten more if they got drafted a couple rounds earlier? Think they got what a 2nd or 3rd rounder would have gotten. We aren't like the NBA with draft slotting no matter how much MLB tries to "recommend".

I read all your posts, and I am not sure exactly what you're even debating anymore. First you say you dont' want to debate Hobgood, then you debate Hobgood. Then you start talking about money spent and how baseball doesn't necessarily follow slotting when it comes to hard to sign guys.

Honestly, I don't think any of your arguments make any sense.

I'll do what I can here to try fix things:

- Hobgood was not the top guy on the board. Strasburg was and then Ackley. Hobgood was on top of the board when it was his turn to be picked, and yes, I fully believe they chose him because of talent and character. As people have pointed out, he's already got 2 plus pitches as an 18 year old.

- Porcello got his asking price. I went to school with Rick's bro, and he told us that was around what they wanted regardless of draft position.

- Coffey and Ohlman were high school kids who you had to pay for their schooling, and pay them enough to convince them that they can put off going to school full time. They only fell that far because they were deemed long shot signings.

- Allstar knows what he is talking about. Completely.

- As far as PIT goes, they got a signability pick, but Sanchez will move quick through the system because of his defense. They've been trying to get Doumit out from behind home plate now for 2 years.

- Washington will draft Harper. Washington handled Strasburg and Boras admirably, and it was all the media who kept throwing up red flags about negotiations. He's not 5 years away, at least that's what they hope. He's got an advanced body and skills for a catcher. He'll hit his way through the minors and could be ready in 2-3 years even if his defense is still developing.