John Lackey and Kevin Millwood

[Sports Guy]

He didn't say they can.

I am sure Hank appreciates you speaking up for him but I am sure he can fight his own battles.

When a player is there that can help you and long term and that player is very good at what he does, you go after him.

Lackey makes sense on every level...The worrying about the money in his fifth year is a little short sighted in this case.

[mweb]

I am sure Hank appreciates you speaking up for him but I am sure he can fight his own battles.

When a player is there that can help you and long term and that player is very good at what he does, you go after him.

Lackey makes sense on every level...The worrying about the money in his fifth year is a little short sighted in this case.

Just pointing out another example of you and others seeing what you want to see to come to the conclusion that many people on here think the team will contend without doing much of anything.

I disagree with you on Lackey, I don't think it would be an awful move, but I'm not high on it. It's not just the 5th year that I'm concerned about, a 5 year deal to a pitcher is taking a larger injury risk for every year compared to a position player, plus the first year isn't going to do much for the team.

[Sports Guy]

Just pointing out another example of you and others seeing what you want to see to come to the conclusion that many people on here think the team will contend without doing much of anything.

I disagree with you on Lackey, I don't think it would be an awful move, but I'm not high on it. It's not just the 5th year that I'm concerned about, a 5 year deal to a pitcher is taking a larger injury risk for every year compared to a position player, plus the first year isn't going to do much for the team.

Well good for you...You continue worrying about semantics and ignoring the real issues.

[mweb]

Well good for you...You continue worrying about semantics and ignoring the real issues.

What real issues am I ignoring wise one?

And you continue to argue with a practically non-existent position, bravo.

[Sports Guy]

What real issues am I ignoring wise one?

And you continue to argue with a practically non-existent position, bravo.

Well, you have the whining down about the word need, so you have that going for you.

[mweb]

Well, you have the whining down about the word need, so you have that going for you.

It really is hilarious that you said you hate to use that word the other day.

And saying I wouldn't use the word need when talking about getting an innings eater is hardly whining, I also made a point about the issue in that post.

So I'm still curious what issues I'm ignoring. I would like to know so I can focus on them from here on out.

[Hank Scorpio]

They can't win with just what they have.

Not next year, no... but they can let the homegrown talent improve before they complement it so as to better maximize their expenditures.

Plus, we shouldn't discount what's currently in the system and what will be there after June of 2010.

While it's important not to overestimate what we have in terms of young talent, we should also be careful not to dismiss the fact that Tillman, Matusz, Arrieta, Hernandez, Jones, Markakis, Wieters, Reimold and Pie are all likely to improve.

Who's going to get worse? Guthrie, Bergesen (probably, though I don't think his regression will be as severe as most), Roberts, Wigginton (though I doubt he'll be starting anywhere for the better part of 2010.)

Then you have guys like Bell who a lot of scouts like.

There is a lot of talent to like in this organization. That talent just needs time. It's unfortunate that there are many around here who would be willing to spend $100MM+ just to get this team to 80 wins next year.

That's silly, IMO. (Before you react, I'm not really referring to you here, SG. I do believe Lackey would be a regrettable contract by the end of it, however.)

Next year will pretty much let us know whether or not we've got a prayer. If we do, we'll be in a good position to shore up a few positions monetarily for more serious runs in the subsequent 3 years.

[Sports Guy]

Not next year, no... but they can let the homegrown talent improve before they complement it so as to better maximize their expenditures.

Plus, we shouldn't discount what's currently in the system and what will be there after June of 2010.

While it's important not to overestimate what we have in terms of young talent, we should also be careful not to dismiss the fact that Tillman, Matusz, Arrieta, Hernandez, Jones, Markakis, Wieters, Reimold and Pie are all likely to improve.

Who's going to get worse? Guthrie, Bergesen (probably, though I don't think his regression will be as severe as most), Roberts, Wigginton (though I doubt he'll be starting anywhere for the better part of 2010.)

Then you have guys like Bell who a lot of scouts like.

There is a lot of talent to like in this organization. That talent just needs time. It's unfortunate that there are many around here who would be willing to spend $100MM+ just to get this team to 80 wins next year.

That's silly, IMO.

Next year will pretty much let us know whether or not we've got a prayer. If we do, we'll be in a good position to shore up a few positions monetarily for more serious runs in the subsequent 3 years.

I see nothing in this post that suggests that signing Lackey isn't a good idea..He doesn't prevent you from doing any of this.

[Hank Scorpio]

I see nothing in this post that suggests that signing Lackey isn't a good idea..He doesn't prevent you from doing any of this.

Yeah, edited.... you beat me to it.

But dude, you know Lackey isn't coming here for anything less than stupid money & years. And the benefit you get from him probably isn't going to be when you're hitting your stride in 2011-2012.

I don't think he's worth it.

[Sports Guy]

Yeah, edited.... you beat me to it.

But dude, you know Lackey isn't coming here for anything less than stupid money & years. And the benefit you get from him probably isn't going to be when you're hitting your stride in 2011-2012.

I don't think he's worth it.

I don't know what his market is going to be...I don't know if he wants to pitch in Boston or NY.

I am prepared to go to Burnett money...If that doesn't get him, fine..you move on.

There are plenty of other targets.

[Fan4Life]

Not next year, no... but they can let the homegrown talent improve before they complement it so as to better maximize their expenditures.

Plus, we shouldn't discount what's currently in the system and what will be there after June of 2010.

While it's important not to overestimate what we have in terms of young talent, we should also be careful not to dismiss the fact that Tillman, Matusz, Arrieta, Hernandez, Jones, Markakis, Wieters, Reimold and Pie are all likely to improve.

Who's going to get worse? Guthrie, Bergesen (probably, though I don't think his regression will be as severe as most), Roberts, Wigginton (though I doubt he'll be starting anywhere for the better part of 2010.)

Then you have guys like Bell who a lot of scouts like.

There is a lot of talent to like in this organization. That talent just needs time. It's unfortunate that there are many around here who would be willing to spend $100MM+ just to get this team to 80 wins next year.

That's silly, IMO. (Before you react, I'm not really referring to you here, SG. I do believe Lackey would be a regrettable contract by the end of it, however.)

Next year will pretty much let us know whether or not we've got a prayer. If we do, we'll be in a good position to shore up a few positions monetarily for more serious runs in the subsequent 3 years.

I don't think this postion is a bad one, in fact I would say it is the correct one. However, what many of you guys who aspire to this position never address is the "who will be available to acquire" when you reach your stated "complement it so as to better maximize their expenditures" point in time. Most of you just assume it can be done and never consider whether that is actually true.

Now for me, I can jump onboard this approach so long as the compete/contend year(s) are a moving target depending on when the majority of our stars align. However, if we have a specific year when we expect to do some damage, then this approach is not the best one and you should evaluate who is available at some point before or at your target year. If you can foresee players as good as, or better being avialable in the offseason before your target year, than a year or 2 out, no problem. If you can't conclude that, you have to make the necessary move when you have it.

[Hank Scorpio]

I don't know what his market is going to be...I don't know if he wants to pitch in Boston or NY.

I am prepared to go to Burnett money...If that doesn't get him, fine..you move on.

There are plenty of other targets.

I wouldn't be upset if they signed Lackey, because he will likely help the team out a lot next year.

But if it's a 5 year deal, they'll regret it. Just like the MFY's will regret Burnett's contract in a year or two.

[mweb]

I guess I'll never know what issues pay attention to.

[Sports Guy]

I wouldn't be upset if they signed Lackey, because he will likely help the team out a lot next year.

But if it's a 5 year deal, they'll regret it. Just like the MFY's will regret Burnett's contract in a year or two.

Have the Rangers regretted Millwood's deal?

[Hank Scorpio]

Have the Rangers regretted Millwood's deal?

Do you really need me to bring up the dozens and dozens of bad pitching contracts to 30+ pitchers?