MacPhail losing my support

[JTrea81]

Exactly right. If Andy MacPhail had gone out and signed a team of Garrett Atkins' (not that I want to take a shot at him seeing as how he's the whipping boy this year) then people might be justified in blaming him for the team's record.

MacPhail assembles this roster of players and the coaching staff so he is absolutely to blame for their performance.

How do you not get that?

If he acquires the wrong players, or doesn't add enough in one area, that's on him. If he's going to make a proclamation that wins and losses matter, he'd better back it up with actions. He didn't and so far he hasn't.

MacPhail is ultimately responsible for the performance of the Orioles, bottom line.

To say he isn't responsible is like saying a CEO isn't responsible for a corporation's performance or actions. It's just silly.

He is the President of Baseball Operations, and if those operations yield a 2-15 record, that reflects poorly on him.

[WiredinBmore]

Did it occur to anyone else that most of the good players on this team were here before AM?

Nick Markakis $66 Mil extension - FAIL (Zobrist just got 5 for 30)

Brob $40 Mil extention - FAIL

Koji $10 Mil - FAIL

Gonzo $12 Mil - FAIL

Atkins - FAIL

"International Program" (which is only ONE person who has since been replaced) FAIL

Bedard Trade - Not Looking as good as before

Bradford trade - FAIL

Farm system rebuild - remains to be seen. If it was so bad before, why are all of Flanny's people still in charge?

"Buy the bats" FAIL

All is not well Phase II land.

We can add at least one more right now. Garrett Atkins signing - FAIL I'd much rather have Glaus for 1.75 Mil over GA for 4.5 Mil with a club option for 8 mil with a $500,000 buyout. Why is he such a genius?

[AgentOrange]

MacPhail assembles this roster of players and the coaching staff so he is absolutely to blame for their performance.

How do you not get that?

If he acquires the wrong players, or doesn't add enough in one area, that's on him. If he's going to make a proclamation that wins and losses matter, he'd better back it up with actions. He didn't and so far he hasn't.

MacPhail is ultimately responsible for the performance of the Orioles, bottom line.

To say he isn't responsible is like saying a CEO isn't responsible for a corporation's performance or actions. It's just silly.

He is the President of Baseball Operations, and if those operations yield a 2-15 record, that reflects poorly on him.

So what about the projections that had this team at 78-82 wins this year? That is a huge improvement over last year. That is what the GM put together. The season is far from over, but the team he put together is one that can compete for .500

[bluedog]

We can add at least one more right now. Garrett Atkins signing - FAIL I'd much rather have Glaus for 1.75 Mil over GA for 4.5 Mil with a club option for 8 mil with a $500,000 buyout. Why is he such a genius?

Just because you type the word "fail" next to something doesn't make it true.

The O's have to pay a premium to keep players here because we haven't had a winning season in 12+ years, while the Rays are less than two years away from a world series appearance and are now considered a perennial playoff contender. That accounts for the differences in contracts between Markakis and Zobrist all by itself, and you can make a dozen other cases why Nick is worth more money at this point in his career as well.

Koji isn't a failure. The dude's been injured, which AM can't control, but when he's pitched he's been as good as advertised.

Roberts is one of the best leadoff hitters in the game. Watching the O's struggle to score runs when he's out of the lineup proves how valuable he is. Don't understand why anyone would see his extension as a failure after watching Julio Lugo hit or Ty Wigginton play the field at 2b.

You really give Gonzalez a fail after what, 4 appearances? :rolleyestf:

I highly question the Atkins and Lugo acquisitions and it's taken some of the luster off of my faith in AM, but you my friend have gone into JTrea Land.

[Mackus]

Did it occur to anyone else that most of the good players on this team were here before AM?

Nick Markakis $66 Mil extension - FAIL (Zobrist just got 5 for 30)

Brob $40 Mil extention - FAIL

Koji $10 Mil - FAIL

Gonzo $12 Mil - FAIL

Atkins - FAIL

"International Program" (which is only ONE person who has since been replaced) FAIL

Bedard Trade - Not Looking as good as before

Bradford trade - FAIL

Farm system rebuild - remains to be seen. If it was so bad before, why are all of Flanny's people still in charge?

"Buy the bats" FAIL

All is not well Phase II land.

Wow, this leaves a lot to be desired in the logic department.

The Markakis extension was a fine deal that everyone was in favor of. Saying it was a dumb deal because Zobrist just took a really, really cheap extension makes no sense. Tampa is getting a great deal on Zobrist, only having to pay him $19.5M over his three arbitration years, but we are only paying Nick $22.1M for his arbitration years. The difference is Zobrist agreed to a much lower annual salary to buy out his free agent years than Nick did, $7-7.5M per year whereas Nick is in the $13-15M range. Saying that deal was a FAIL on MacPhail's part is just shear stupidity, though. It was a terrific contract that every single person was happy about.

BRob's deal is looking bad right now, but if he gets over this injury, he still should be well worth that contract. Saying its a fail, again, shows ignorance. At worst its incomplete at this point. This is at least a deal where there was split opinions on at the time, unlike Nick's.

Koji was worth his $5M last year, that's a proven fact based on his production over the number of innings he was able to pitch and what free agents tend to cost to provide that level of production. He's still got time to get back and help us this year, but he'll be hard-pressed to earn his money working out of the bullpen unless he takes over the closer role. Hard to say that's a complete fail, but it has been disappointing.

Can't call Gonzo a fail after 3 appearances, although he looked terrible. He's got 2 years left here, and has been nothing but an elite reliever in his career. Plenty of time to make that contract look real nice and be a great performer for us. Not sure anyone could have foreseen him flopping like this, the only negative of his deal was giving up the draft pick. Nobody had doubts about Gonzalez' abilities when he signed.

Atkins I agree was a terrible move at the time, looked even worse after signing Tejada, and has appeared to be just as bad as most expected during he season. Easily the worst move Andy has made in his time here.

The International FA system is also a mess, but that's not somewhere you can really see immediate responses even if they are being made. I'm willing to believe that this area is still in shambles though, that's definitely a place I'd like to see Andy doing a lot more.

Calling the Bedard trade anything less than a huge success is ridiculous. Independent people called it the biggest fleecing in several years. Just because Jones and Tillman are struggling right now doesn't make it a flop. Bedard pitched 164 innings in his two years in Seattle.

How was the Bradford trade a fail? The Orioles saved $4M by trading him, and he pitched a grand total of 30 innings for the Rays in 2008 and 2009 due to injuries. You can't possibly think that 30 innings of Chad Bradford is worth $4M, that's absolutely insane. Giving up old, mediocre, and expensive relief pitchers is a good thing, not a bad one. He would have given away Baez and Walker too if anyone would have taken them.

The farm system is one of the better ones in baseball despite the massive graduations form last year. We're still ranked in the top third to half and last year's draft added a ton of depth and talent. That's clearly not a fail.

"Buy the bats" hasn't needed to be done yet. Teixeira I'm upset we didn't go harder after, but trying to sign someone like Holliday would have been stupid beyond description. We do need to go hard after a 1B/DH bat like Pena, Lee, or Dunn this year. At least one of those guys or a similar trade acquisition is essentially mandatory for my continued approval of MacPhail's tenure here.

[TiredofLosing20]

If this poor start isn't making people have some serious doubts about MacPhail's plan, nothing will.

If we don't get things turned around in a big way, I'm gonna be pretty pessimistic about the future. Not because we don't have a few big stars right now, anyone who thinks we're bad because MacPhail has already screwed up in not bringing anyone in is simply delusional, but if the young guys we have are so terrible this year, how much hope is there that they bounce back enough to be the players we need them to be next year?

Andy has cast his lot with this bunch, if they can't make us winners then he's gonna end up a loser. We still need to add 1-3 big free agents, but this core is what is gonna win or lose things for us If they make it, we can be good even with mediocre free agent signings, if they don't then we won't win no matter how many high priced free agents we bring in.

Ah some sanity. Thank you Mackus. I was starting to wonder if everyone was hopped on crazy pills.

The AM plan is exactly what most of us were hoping for during the years leading up to AM's hire. People with short term memory have quickly forgotten that the O's did try the JTrea plan of signing all the high priced FAs and it resulted in another losing season, only it cost a lot more both in $$$ and roster flexibility.

Whether AM "fails" or not is not an indictment of his strategy but instead will be determined by his ability to evaluate young players and buy the RIGHT FA and the RIGHT time. Jones, Markakis, Wieters, Arrieta, Tillman, Matusz, etc etc etc ultimately will determine his fate. Regardless the approach AM has taken is absolutely correct for this organization. Build up the farm and stockpile pitching. Supplement with FA when the time is right. Whether we have the right young players to build around and whether AM can pull the trigger when needed on FAs is really the only thing that is debatable in my mind that can only be determined in time.

With that said, I am not suggesting that we don't need to get some big free agents. The disagreement has been when not if. Thankfully, none of the "horrible" FA we have signed will significantly hinder us when the time is right to spend dollars going forward.

By the end of 2010 season we will know a lot more about our younger guys. We will be able to make a much more informed decision on how and where we should look outside of the organization to fill holes. AM has 11 more months to improve this team for the 2011 season. All along I have targeted 2011 so he gets until then to show one way or the other if he has made good personnel decisions. Whether he has or hasn't doesn't change the fact that his approach is the right one for the Orioles.

[Going Underground]

Zaun for Hughes=pass

Markakis and Roberts were good for the team. You need some players you can identify with. Markakis could have some really good years and Roberts is a fine leadoff hittrer. Roberts getting injured makes the deal look bad now. Who knows maybe Atkins finds his stroke and hits 25 home runs. You never know in baseball. I also think when people called the Bedard trade,one of the best ever,it was a little premature.

[DrungoHazewood]

MacPhail assembles this roster of players and the coaching staff so he is absolutely to blame for their performance.

How do you not get that?

If he acquires the wrong players, or doesn't add enough in one area, that's on him. If he's going to make a proclamation that wins and losses matter, he'd better back it up with actions. He didn't and so far he hasn't.

MacPhail is ultimately responsible for the performance of the Orioles, bottom line.

To say he isn't responsible is like saying a CEO isn't responsible for a corporation's performance or actions. It's just silly.

He is the President of Baseball Operations, and if those operations yield a 2-15 record, that reflects poorly on him.

MacPhail is absoutely responsible for the results produced by the players and manager, and coaches he hires. No question about that.

But he's also absolutely, positively not responsible for assembling a team that never goes through a bad stretch. It's ridiculous to judge a GM on less than a month's worth of performance. If that's the case Theo should be fired for assembling a team expected to win 95+ games, but has been well under .500 over the same period.