MacPhail losing my support

[JTrea81]

And yes, your final point has been the key for awhile now and many have ignored it. If the young core doesn't prosper, the team will not contend regardless of going out and getting marquee players.

So tell me what is worse:

Not adding any marquee talent and the young talent falters?

Adding marquee talent and making a run at it, with the risk they might falter?

At least with the second choice you are giving it a shot...

If we've hitched our wagon to the younger talent, we might as well go all in now, because we should at least try to make a run with them instead of waiting to see if they are going to fail or not.

In either situation we are going to be doomed for years to come if that talent doesn't pan out.

[mweb]

So tell me what is worse:

Not adding any marquee talent and the young talent falters?

Adding marquee talent and making a run at it, with the risk they might falter?

At least with the second choice you are giving it a shot...

If we've hitched our wagon to the younger talent, we might as well go all in now, because we should at least try to make a run with them instead of waiting to see if they are going to fail or not.

In either situation we are going to be doomed for years to come if that talent doesn't pan out.

Having the young talent fail while also paying guys a ton of money to be on a losing team is worse. Trading away guys that end up being good elsewhere so we can have a star vet on a losing team is also worse.

I'm not against taking a shot. I just want to take a shot when/if it makes sense to do so. So when that shot as a realistic possibility of succeeding.

We'll see how the young players progress and see what makes sense to do in the future.

[wildcard]

If you are going to try to assign blame, at put it at the right place.

Roberts, Markakis, Jones, Reimold, Pie, Scott, Johnson have not performed as they were projected to perform. If they were this would be a .500 team considering the starting pitching this team has received.

Blaming the GM for the players failure is looking in the wrong place IMO.

[Mad Mark]

And I know it's open season on me here, but you might want to consider following the board rules about personal attacks to set an example for newer posters.

And that goes for everybody else who is taking shots. Consider the example you are setting...

Right back at you. Consider the example you are setting. You choose to present yourself on this board as the Terminator wrapped in lunatic fringe, monomaniacally flogging a single (and flawed) concept. I'm waiting breathlessly for the post where you "prove" that Angelos, MacPhail and Trembley kidnapped the Lindbergh baby.

If you think a small, improbable outlier sample "proves" your "point"...well, I can't stop you. But I can be among those who point out that you're running around this place buck naked while asking us to admire your new trousers and crown.

[Slappy]

How is it a BS excuse? We don't have the disposable income to spend 18-20 million on a couple of peak seasons of Tex or Holliday when the team is still going to lose 90 games. That's just a silly way to use your money.

MacPhail is trying to improve at the major league level. Just because it hasn't been through huge free agent signings doesn't mean it's not being done.

We were not going to get Tex or Holliday. No argument there. But we could have gotten LaRoche, a natural first baseman and proven run producer. We could have gotten Capps, a proven closer, for less than Gonzo, who did not prosper in the position last year. We could have made a play for JJ Hardy, who is better offensively and defensively than Izturis. The Twins got him for next to nothing. All of these things would have improved the big league club this year.

MacPhail's approach to improving the big league club is "we'll be better next year". How many people, including Brian Roberts for crying out loud, said they didn't care whether we won or lost last year? Those are the words of a loser. You would have Ty Cobb and Jackie Robinson turning in their graves hearing that come out of a professional's mouth.

[Scrat1]

Still 100% behind MacPhail.

Jtrea: Still 100% crazy.

[Going Underground]

We were not going to get Tex or Holliday. No argument there. But we could have gotten LaRoche, a natural first baseman and proven run producer. We could have gotten Capps, a proven closer, for less than Gonzo, who did not prosper in the position last year. We could have made a play for JJ Hardy, who is better offensively and defensively than Izturis. The Twins got him for next to nothing. All of these things would have improved the big league club this year.

MacPhail's approach to improving the big league club is "we'll be better next year". How many people, including Brian Roberts for crying out loud, said they didn't care whether we won or lost last year? Those are the words of a loser. You would have Ty Cobb and Jackie Robinson turning in their graves hearing that come out of a professional's mouth.

Also the guy they wanted for third base is still not signed. Joe Crede. I think at the beginning the O's wanted LaRoche and Crede. Miggy became available so Crede was basically without a job. I think we are in a no win situation. We need a big bat and how do we get one? I don't see any free agents coming to a team with back to back almost 100 loses. We go after AGon and we trade away pieces that might make us better. The players in the minors either live up to the potential or we flounder for years.

[El Gordo]

If you are going to try to assign blame, at put it at the right place.

Roberts, Markakis, Jones, Reimold, Pie, Scott, Johnson have not performed as they were projected to perform. If they were this would be a .500 team considering the starting pitching this team has received.

Blaming the GM for the players failure is looking in the wrong place IMO.

Unlike you I don't blame Pie for being injured. Other than that I don't see how you can say he hasn't performed as we expected.

[amateurfan]

If you are going to try to assign blame, at put it at the right place.

Roberts, Markakis, Jones, Reimold, Pie, Scott, Johnson have not performed as they were projected to perform. If they were this would be a .500 team considering the starting pitching this team has received.

Blaming the GM for the players failure is looking in the wrong place IMO.

Isn't it the job of the GM to evaluate players and determine who will live up to projections? I don't see how that's separable.

As it is, some of the Os hitters will perform to their projections this year: Markakis and Wieters most importantly. I'm very confident that Reimold will hit as soon as he's healthy. I have no idea what to think about Jones.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Isn't it the job of the GM to evaluate players and determine who will live up to projections? I don't see how that's separable.

As it is, some of the Os hitters will perform to their projections this year: Markakis and Wieters most importantly. I'm very confident that Reimold will hit as soon as he's healthy. I have no idea what to think about Jones.

Well, then what's the issue? If those guys start hitting, we're coming out of this funk pretty quick and only the usual ignorant amongst us are complaining about the way the franchise is going.

[wildcard]

Unlike you I don't blame Pie for being injured. Other than that I don't see how you can say he hasn't performed as we expected.

I like Pie's talent but he does make me wonder a little. He is injury prone like David Segui. Anyone that pulls a back muscle throwing to the plate, and strains a hammy just running the bases makes me wonder what is really going on. The jury is still out on him IMO. However, I understand you thinking he is not to be blamed. I just don't know.

I think players are not only responsible for performing on the field, they are also responsible to not doing anything that will keep them from staying healthy.

[wildcard]

Isn't it the job of the GM to evaluate players and determine who will live up to projections? I don't see how that's separable.

As it is, some of the Os hitters will perform to their projections this year: Markakis and Wieters most importantly. I'm very confident that Reimold will hit as soon as he's healthy. I have no idea what to think about Jones.

Sure its the GM's job to evaluate talent. But there is no way that MacPhail is at fault for Roberts working out so hard that he hurt his back and there is no way that MacPhail is at fault for Markakis slumping to start the season. Those are two of the biggest reasons for the O's slow offensive start. If they were performing at even average levels the rest of the team might not be pressing.

[amateurfan]

Well, then what's the issue? If those guys start hitting, we're coming out of this funk pretty quick and only the usual ignorant amongst us are complaining about the way the franchise is going.

Do you not see the issue for real? The first issue is not related to any personal beliefs or passions, but of personnel. I'm simply asking who's responsible for the personnel.

The second part of my post was simply an assertion that I think those two hitters will produce this year. There's no opinion of AM in that.

[amateurfan]

Sure its the GM's job to evaluate talent. But there is no way that MacPhail is at fault for Roberts working out so hard that he hurt his back and there is no way that MacPhail is at fault for Markakis slumping to start the season. Those are two of the biggest reasons for the O's slow offensive start. If they were performing at even average levels the rest of the team might not be pressing.

That's only two players. I'm thinking more about Jones for the present, and Snyder and Bell for the future. I hope they work out.

Independent of whatever happens with the Orioles, I think the GM is always responsible for personnel. If the GM fails to acquire enough talent to win, that's not on the players themselves.

Personally, I think the Os are about to win a handful. Wieters' bat looked really good last night. So did Markakis's.

[ledzepp8]

If you are going to try to assign blame, at put it at the right place.

Roberts, Markakis, Jones, Reimold, Pie, Scott, Johnson have not performed as they were projected to perform. If they were this would be a .500 team considering the starting pitching this team has received.

Blaming the GM for the players failure is looking in the wrong place IMO.

Exactly right. If Andy MacPhail had gone out and signed a team of Garrett Atkins' (not that I want to take a shot at him seeing as how he's the whipping boy this year) then people might be justified in blaming him for the team's record.