MacPhail losing my support

[ledzepp8]

Why do so few people here understand this point?

MSK

Teams that aren't the Yankees and Red Sox can't afford to pay big dollars for peak years of "premium talent" when the team is not expected to contend.

Why do you two not understand this point?

[NewMarketSean]

MacPhail does some good things. And a lot of what is bad right now stems from offensive slumps that no one could see coming. Sure we knew Atkins would suck, but everyone else is just terrible too.

That said, MacPhail's flaws are what put us in this position: he's always been slow to make moves, didn't do enough over the last 2 years to add quality depth to the organization, and still signs retreads instead of getting good players with potential (ie, more guys like Felix Pie).

[Mackus]

This is season will be the undoing of MacPhail as GM. He might be back next year, sure, but if this season is a 162 game disaster, he's finished.

He said this year would be more about wins and losses and so far we're headed for a disastrous season with a record that could very well be worse than last year's.

He basically pushed all in with a pair of 2's.

Obviously he's not "all in". This year was supposed to be more about the wins and losses, but it still wasn't ever supposed to be a year we were expected to contend.

Its dumb to say that losing this year derails the plan, but it definitely brings a lot of doubt into the equation. Its clearly not impossible to make huge leaps in one year, but going from 64 wins to 78 wins to 90 wins seems like the ideal way to improve. But there really isn't any reason why we couldn't go from 66 wins in 2010 to 90 in 2011. The real grade is the 2011 record, we need to contend throughout the entire year. At least 85 wins. It will seem more attainable if we have a respectable 2010, but an awful 2010 doesn't make that unattainable.

[Mackus]

Why do so few people here understand this point?

MSK

The suggestion that all of the younger hitters that are struggling would magically be hitting acceptably this year if we had Matt Holliday is simply stupid. You're not directly making that suggestion, but you are agreeing with someone who is so stupid that he would make that suggestion. Careful which wagon you hitch on to.

[NewMarketSean]

Obviously he's not "all in". This year was supposed to be more about the wins and losses, but it still wasn't ever supposed to be a year we were expected to contend.

Its dumb to say that losing this year derails the plan, but it definitely brings a lot of doubt into the equation. Its clearly not impossible to make huge leaps in one year, but going from 64 wins to 78 wins to 90 wins seems like the ideal way to improve. But there really isn't any reason why we couldn't go from 66 wins in 2010 to 90 in 2011. The real grade is the 2011 record, we need to contend throughout the entire year. At least 85 wins. It will seem more attainable if we have a respectable 2010, but an awful 2010 doesn't make that unattainable.

Ha, you quoted that post before I changed it. I re-read it, realized it didn't really say much and edited it. So I never really said those things.

[neveradoubt]

NEWSFLASH:

TEX WAS NEVER COMING HERE.

I repeat,

TEX WAS NEVER COMING HERE

One more time:

TEX WAS NEVER COMING HERE

He wanted to be a Yankee, and the Yankees could have and would have outbid the O's.

You're creating a strawman just to bash MacPhail.

Is the major league product acceptable right now? Absolutely not.

But anyone who doesn't see how much better the organization is now than it was when MacPhail came in is either biased, or has a few screws loose.

How many more years do you give AM? No speed- No defense- No power- No bull pen- Are they only 1 year away? 2 years away? 3 years away , 4------?

[Slappy]

Teams that aren't the Yankees and Red Sox can't afford to pay big dollars for peak years of "premium talent" when the team is not expected to contend.

Why do you two not understand this point?

The fact that everyone that disagrees is a moron aside... This is a b.s. excuse to not spend money or player currency (prospects) to improve the major league club. I'm almost shocked at how cavalier this board at large has been to not improving at the major league level for the past 3 years. How long are you willing to suffer 65-win seasons while youngsters, who may or may not ever be worth a spit, cut their teeth?

[MemorialStadKid]

The suggestion that all of the younger hitters that are struggling would magically be hitting acceptably this year if we had Matt Holliday is simply stupid. You're not directly making that suggestion, but you are agreeing with someone who is so stupid that he would make that suggestion. Careful which wagon you hitch on to.

I'm not hitching to Jtrea's wagon, and I never said a word about Matt Holliday, what I am suggesting is that AM's methods are far too conservative/risk-averse to make a dent in the standings in the AL East.

There is a perfect storm of improbable injuries, offensive slumps, managerial blunders regarding the bullpen and a host of other extremely unfortunate situations all simultaneously affecting the team.

However, we didn't come to the corral with enough gunslingers man. We had guys with a three bullets in a six-shooter, a few with a pitchfork, and a one-legged dude in an butt-kicking contest going up against a well-tuned army with a Death Star laser.

MacPhail did not secure proper organizational depth in case things didn't work out. He put way too much pressure on the young core to turn the franchise around with no discernible PLAN B.

I had posed this question many times over the last year: "What happens if things don't work out as planned?" People said I was being negative and so on, but I was truly concerned then as I am now that MacPhail doesn't move aggressively enough to compete with other teams in the FA arena. He does shaky trades that seem incredible at first, but then as time goes on, we see why teams were willing to trade away so many mediocre players for one sure shot.

I don't know what's wrong with the Orioles scouting dept., but Atkins was a stupid, stupid signing. We really needed to grab two TOR starters instead of just Millwood and we need to be willing to make a few trades of some of the farm pitchers while their perceived value is high.

But that would require some outside of the box thinking and AM doesn't think like that.

MSK

[ledzepp8]

The fact that everyone that disagrees is a moron aside... This is a b.s. excuse to not spend money or player currency (prospects) to improve the major league club. I'm almost shocked at how cavalier this board at large has been to not improving at the major league level for the past 3 years. How long are you willing to suffer 65-win seasons while youngsters, who may or may not ever be worth a spit, cut their teeth?

How is it a BS excuse? We don't have the disposable income to spend 18-20 million on a couple of peak seasons of Tex or Holliday when the team is still going to lose 90 games. That's just a silly way to use your money.

MacPhail is trying to improve at the major league level. Just because it hasn't been through huge free agent signings doesn't mean it's not being done.

[theobird]

How is it a BS excuse? We don't have the disposable income to spend 18-20 million on a couple of peak seasons of Tex or Holliday when the team is still going to lose 90 games. That's just a silly way to use your money.

MacPhail is trying to improve at the major league level. Just because it hasn't been through huge free agent signings doesn't mean it's not being done.

This is just wrong. How do you generate revenue? By putting a horse $%#@ team on the field and selling 7000 tickets to your home games? Yeah, that will sell a lot of HotDogs and Beer, hats, parking spots, Jerseys, etc., etc. When you sign redundant players at mid level contracts instead of a few really good players at high dollar contracts, this is what you get. A very poor team that does not draw well, thus reducing your spending power and dooming you to hope that the kids can find there way all by themselves. I sure as hell hope that they do, but the path this team has been taken down is just short of criminal.

[Old#5fan]

Seriously ?

Characters

How can you take anything seriously from a guy who probably lives in his mother's ) (or worse yet) grandmother's basement?:laughlol: Yet on here he gets to play internet warrior until Tony reigns him in!:rofl:

[El Gordo]

MacPhail does some good things. And a lot of what is bad right now stems from offensive slumps that no one could see coming. Sure we knew Atkins would suck, but everyone else is just terrible too.

That said, MacPhail's flaws are what put us in this position: he's always been slow to make moves, didn't do enough over the last 2 years to add quality depth to the organization, and still signs retreads instead of getting good players with potential (ie, more guys like Felix Pie).

Not a lot. All of it. If we were hitting at our projected medium average OPS we would be producing enough runs to be an over .500 team, and nobody would be whining about Wiggi's and Miggi 's errors and Atkin's 10 LOB's. Stuff like this looms large because we aren't expecting the team to score more than 3 runs a game. MacPhail has nothing to do with Markakis,' Reimold's, Scott's, Jones', poor hitting or BRob's, Koji's and Pie's injuries. As recently as this spring there were post's about what a huge mistake Wiggi was and what a liability to the team he was. Today he is our best hitter, by AS break he'll probably suck again, who knows? Last season at this time many of the same bright lights whining about Atkins today, wanted Pie DFA'd. Now they can't wait for him to be off the DL. It's baseball, you can't base any judgements on two weeks of play no matter how bad it has been.

[Mizerooskie]

How many more years do you give AM? No speed- No defense- No power- No bull pen- Are they only 1 year away? 2 years away? 3 years away , 4------?

You give AM as many years as it takes until the organization stops improving. Unlike many here, I don't judge AM on 20 game segments. If, at the end of the year, he hasn't improved the organization, then it's time to reconsider his position. Calling for his head after a bad stretch of games is silly. Boston has been worse, relative to their talent, than the Orioles this season. Does that mean Theo Epstein deserves to be fired? Of course not.

Anyone who thought the O's were going to be competitive this season was fooling himself. This was always going to be another rebuilding year.

[JTrea81]

The suggestion that all of the younger hitters that are struggling would magically be hitting acceptably this year if we had Matt Holliday is simply stupid. You're not directly making that suggestion, but you are agreeing with someone who is so stupid that he would make that suggestion. Careful which wagon you hitch on to.

It is not stupid to think if there was a hitter that actually was a consistent threat, the lineup would perform better because the other hitters would be under less pressure to carry the offense. I'm not saying they'd all be slugging all-stars, but they wouldn't have the mindset that they alone have to get the big hit, which IMO would lead them to perform better.

Right now we have no consistent hitter so everybody is pressing.

And I know it's open season on me here, but you might want to consider following the board rules about personal attacks to set an example for newer posters.

And that goes for everybody else who is taking shots. Consider the example you are setting...

[mweb]

If this poor start isn't making people have some serious doubts about MacPhail's plan, nothing will.

If we don't get things turned around in a big way, I'm gonna be pretty pessimistic about the future. Not because we don't have a few big stars right now, anyone who thinks we're bad because MacPhail has already screwed up in not bringing anyone in is simply delusional, but if the young guys we have are so terrible this year, how much hope is there that they bounce back enough to be the players we need them to be next year?

Andy has cast his lot with this bunch, if they can't make us winners then he's gonna end up a loser. We still need to add 1-3 big free agents, but this core is what is gonna win or lose things for us If they make it, we can be good even with mediocre free agent signings, if they don't then we won't win no matter how many high priced free agents we bring in.

I generally agree with this. However, I will make a point I've made before, and it's not specifically directed at you. Many of us have supported AM's plan and much of what he's done, so if we end up calling him a failure, we should also admit that we were wrong about the young core and his plan in general.

I'm just anticipating a ton of people who supported him changing their tune (if it hasn't already happened) while acting like he was being stupid or whatever while omitting the fact that they supported much of what he did. So just a message board pet peeve.

And yes, your final point has been the key for awhile now and many have ignored it. If the young core doesn't prosper, the team will not contend regardless of going out and getting marquee players.