MacPhail losing my support

[brianod]

We don't have a major league first baseman on the roster. Our star second baseman is 34 with a career threatening injury. Our shortstop can't hit. I guess he's ok as a 9th hitter because he is one of the few guys on the roster that can field at an acceptable level. Our 3b is a slow, aging veteran with no power. Our center fielder shows flashes of brilliance followed by flashes of ineptitude. We have 4 left fielders. None of them can field and all of them are prone to long stretches where they can't hit the broad side of a barn. Our right fielder may be the only starting position player worth a damb and even he has been a disappointment. We are solid at DH because we have 8 guys that can hit a little and can't field. We don't have a closer. When Gonzalez comes back, we still don't have a closer. Our setup guy chokes every time the game is on the line.

Thank God for our starting pitching. Unfortunately, you can't win 0-0 games. It's time to face facts. Instead of a young, improving team, it's time to start over again.

[orioles119]

Wow... this could have gone in the numerous other threads that have the same flavor.

[JTrea81]

We don't have a major league first baseman on the roster. Our star second baseman is 34 with a career threatening injury. Our shortstop can't hit. I guess he's ok as a 9th hitter because he is one of the few guys on the roster that can field at an acceptable level. Our 3b is a slow, aging veteran with no power. Our center fielder shows flashes of brilliance followed by flashes of ineptitude. We have 4 left fielders. None of them can field and all of them are prone to long stretches where they can't hit the broad side of a barn. Our right fielder may be the only starting position player worth a damb and even he has been a disappointment. We are solid at DH because we have 8 guys that can hit a little and can't field. We don't have a closer. When Gonzalez comes back, we still don't have a closer. Our setup guy chokes every time the game is on the line.

Thank God for our starting pitching. Unfortunately, you can't win 0-0 games. It's time to face facts. Instead of a young, improving team, it's time to start over again.

It's not time to start over again, but we need to go for it with what we have instead of treading water.

It's time to invest in this team to win games.

Unfortunately we are going to have to wallow through this season because MacPhail blew an opportunity last offseason.

Next offseason - no excuses and no more treading water with stopgaps. We need to trade away our young pitching if it's still tradeable to upgrade this offense signficantly. And if we have to overpay FAs to come to Baltimore, then we'd better darn well do it. AM is going to have to change his stripes if he truly wants a competitive team.

[brianod]

It's not time to start over again, but we need to go for it with what we have instead of treading water.

It's time to invest in this team to win games.

Unfortunately we are going to have to wallow through this season because MacPhail blew an opportunity last offseason.

Next offseason - no excuses and no more treading water with stopgaps. We need to trade away our young pitching if it's still tradeable to upgrade this offense signficantly. And if we have to overpay FAs to come to Baltimore, then we'd better darn well do it. AM is going to have to change his stripes if he truly wants a competitive team.

I was roundly laughed at by the geniuses at this site when I said we should have overpaid for Tex. The conventional wisdom was that we should grow the young players and wait until we were almost ready to sign a big name free agent. I was right and the conventional (ie, clique on this board) was wrong. Our starting 9 is the worst in baseball. Our bullpen is the worst in baseball. After losing for 13 years, our prospects are not as good as they should be. I'd keep McPhail and Trembley until the end of this year. If we lose 90 games again, I'd get rid of both of them. This isn't Trembley's fault, it's Angelos/McPhails imho

[RVAbird]

I was roundly laughed at by the geniuses at this site when I said we should have overpaid for Tex. The conventional wisdom was that we should grow the young players and wait until we were almost ready to sign a big name free agent. I was right and the conventional (ie, clique on this board) was wrong. Our starting 9 is the worst in baseball. Our bullpen is the worst in baseball. After losing for 13 years, our prospects are not as good as they should be. I'd keep McPhail and Trembley until the end of this year. If we lose 90 games again, I'd get rid of both of them. This isn't Trembley's fault, it's Angelos/McPhails imho

The disconnect here is hilarious. How are you 'right?' If things are really as dismal as you make them seem, what good would Tex do? Make us a 66 win team instead of a 60 win team? a 76 win team instead of a 70 win team? Tex doesn't pitch out of the pen and he can't turn a non-contending team into a contender unless they're right on the verge.

This is precisely why you shouldn't waste resources on megabuck contracts for star players unless you're fairly confident they will put you over the edge. Why is marginal win value such a difficult concept for some to grasp?

I don't understand how our abysmal start makes you and JTrea and other spend-now-go-all-in posters feel vindicated. It's as if the worse we are as an organization the more incentive there is to overspend and get those critical pieces. It's so completely backwards my head hurts.

[JTrea81]

This is precisely why you shouldn't waste resources on megabuck contracts for star players unless you're fairly confident they will put you over the edge. Why is marginal win value such a difficult concept for some to grasp?

I don't understand how our abysmal start makes you and JTrea and other spend-now-go-all-in posters feel vindicated. It's as if the worse we are as an organization the more incentive there is to overspend and get those critical pieces. It's so completely backwards my head hurts.

So would you rather see us do nothing and let our talent sink or swim? What happens if it all sinks? Then what?

I'd rather support our investment so they don't sink. The future is riding on the development of Wieters and Jones primarily and the young arms. If they don't succeed the team is sunk.

If you are going to spend 100+ million on a player for more than 6 years, they are part of your core, no matter what, so what's the harm in getting them a year or two early? You need to acquire the talent when it is available to you, otherwise it may not be there when you think you need it - aka Teixeira...

We are supposed to be winning games this season, but MacPhail's offseason didn't really help that cause. This is not supposed to be a rebuilding year. We are supposed to go for it next year, which is why it made sense a year ago and last offseason to go for that difference making talent.

We are supposed to be winning now.

[Mizerooskie]

NEWSFLASH:

TEX WAS NEVER COMING HERE.

I repeat,

TEX WAS NEVER COMING HERE

One more time:

TEX WAS NEVER COMING HERE

He wanted to be a Yankee, and the Yankees could have and would have outbid the O's.

You're creating a strawman just to bash MacPhail.

Is the major league product acceptable right now? Absolutely not.

But anyone who doesn't see how much better the organization is now than it was when MacPhail came in is either biased, or has a few screws loose.

[Scrat1]

[RVAbird]

So would you rather see us do nothing and let our talent sink or swim? What happens if it all sinks? Then what?

I'd rather support our investment so they don't sink.

If you are going to spend 100+ million on a player for more than 6 years, they are part of your core, no matter what, so what's the harm in getting them a year or two early? You need to acquire the talent when it is available to you, otherwise it may not be there when you think you need it - aka Teixeira...

We are supposed to be winning games this season, but MacPhail's offseason didn't really help that cause. This is not supposed to be a rebuilding year. We are supposed to go for it next year, which is why it made sense a year ago and last offseason to go for that difference making talent.

We are supposed to be winning now.

Honestly, I don't care either way about whether we make a big signing this year or next because the core of young talent will determine the future of the franchise regardless of what premium FA's we sign. We may well have to sign that one premium guy to catapult us into contention, but had we signed Tex or Holliday or traded a bounty of talent for AGon we still wouldn't be there yet. It's just not necessary at this point.

The worse our team performs the more you seem to champion your cause of committing to high-risk, inefficient contracts that become increasingly irrelevant. I have found fault with a good chunk of AM's policies so far, so before you call me blind or anything like that just know that it's BS. I think MacPhail needs to do more to acquire young, cheap talent to bolster the future upside of this organization. But I won't fault him for not committing 200 MM for a couple of pieces that wouldn't make a damn difference in the big picture.

I don't want respectability, I want consistent success. Don't you realize that the further away our core is from our expectations the less we should be itching to throw 150+ MM out to a big name?

[JTrea81]

Did it occur to anyone else that most of the good players on this team were here before AM?

Nick Markakis $66 Mil extension - FAIL (Zobrist just got 5 for 30)

Brob $40 Mil extention - FAIL

Koji $10 Mil - FAIL

Gonzo $12 Mil - FAIL

Atkins - FAIL

"International Program" (which is only ONE person who has since been replaced) FAIL

Bedard Trade - Not Looking as good as before

Bradford trade - FAIL

Farm system rebuild - remains to be seen. If it was so bad before, why are all of Flanny's people still in charge?

"Buy the bats" FAIL

All is not well Phase II land.

True. MacPhail has only really brought in Jones and Mickolio to the ML team as possible LT solutions. Matusz probably could be credited to him as well as he pushed Jordan to draft him.

He traded for Pie who's been either inconsistent at the plate or on the DL.

Other than that, he's done nothing to add players for the LT future of this team really.

Jordan or DeMacio drafted the other core players under other GMs.

I'm glad to see people finally becoming aware of how AM is holding this franchise back with his non-moves.

[JTrea81]

Honestly, I don't care either way about whether we make a big signing this year or next because the core of young talent will determine the future of the franchise regardless of what premium FA's we sign. We may well have to sign that one premium guy to catapult us into contention, but had we signed Tex or Holliday or traded a bounty of talent for AGon we still wouldn't be there yet. It's just not necessary at this point

One premium guy won't do it. We have to ramp up starting now, otherwise we'll never get there. I think you can see what is happening to our offense without that established talent in it. The younger hitters are pressing because they've been forced to carry the offense.

I don't want respectability, I want consistent success. Don't you realize that the further away our core is from our expectations the less we should be itching to throw 150+ MM out to a big name?

So what's the downside? 5th place?

And Angelos has already said MacPhail's plan will not yield a consistent winner.

I want to start winning games and stop treading water waiting for a perfect storm of prospects to develop.

Anything the farms yields from now on should be a bonus, not an expectation.

[Mizerooskie]

Are you suggesting that MacPhail builds a team, essentially from scratch, through Free Agency?

That's insane.

[JTrea81]

Are you suggesting that MacPhail builds a team, essentially from scratch, through Free Agency?

That's insane.

No I'm saying we should have acquired some difference making talent this past offseason to take the offensive load away from our younger hitters and you would have those guys already on the team in the next offseason so you don't have to add as much to become a competitive team.

Instead of having to add 20 wins in one offseason, you only need to add 10.

Now it will take a miracle to compete in 2011 and we have an outside shot in 2012 if MacPhail doesn't blow another offseason.

This offseason set us back a ton.

[LA2]

We don't have a major league first baseman on the roster. Our star second baseman is 34 with a career threatening injury. Our shortstop can't hit. I guess he's ok as a 9th hitter because he is one of the few guys on the roster that can field at an acceptable level. Our 3b is a slow, aging veteran with no power. Our center fielder shows flashes of brilliance followed by flashes of ineptitude. We have 4 left fielders. None of them can field and all of them are prone to long stretches where they can't hit the broad side of a barn. Our right fielder may be the only starting position player worth a damb and even he has been a disappointment. We are solid at DH because we have 8 guys that can hit a little and can't field. We don't have a closer. When Gonzalez comes back, we still don't have a closer. Our setup guy chokes every time the game is on the line.

Thank God for our starting pitching. Unfortunately, you can't win 0-0 games. It's time to face facts. Instead of a young, improving team, it's time to start over again.

You forgot about our catcher.

[MemorialStadKid]

Why do people continue to defend MacPhail after one of the worst Orioles off seasons in recent memory where the fruit of his sub-par scouting and development is laid bare on the field night after night?

There can be no more excuses. He's made statements where he claims to want to "fix" the team and improve in the standings and he went out and made a series of mediocre moves picking up declining vets (with the exception of Millwood) and somehow expected the youth core to pick up the slack without solid clubhouse leadership and/or motivation.

This whole FO stinks to high heaven.

MSK