Orioles attendance so far -- not encouraging

[LookitsPuck]

So let me get this straight, you haven't worked there since 2003, you have no idea what the exact percentage is, and you're saying I'm completely off when I gave you a percentage the year AFTER you stopped working there? Good grief. You come off high and mighty, bash someone for being COMPLETELY off, yet you:

1. Don't have the data

2. Haven't worked there in nearly 8 years

3. Are claiming 85%, when at the very least *1* year was around 60%

And you're still ignoring small sample sizes in regards to my data about the weather. The economy plays a huge part (why is attendance down across baseball, skip?). Hell, you just pointed out a point that actually counterfeits your "losing" idea, because if that one Red Sox game is well attended, it drives the sales up quite a bit. Hell, why are you ignoring the weather altogether? I'm going to post again, because you're doing your same spiel (ignore the points that you can't counterargue):

owever, what you ignore (and HAVE been ignoring) is that there are short term factors in play.

If in 5 home games, the weather was terrible for 2 of them, would the average attendance be accurate against the entire year? I'm curious if you'd even answer this. There have been 23 games, at the point of this thread we've had the following games:

3 against the Tigers

3 against the Rangers

4 against the Twins

3 against the Yankees

1? against the BoSox

For a total of: 14 games. That is 17% of the home games of the season. Not exactly the end all determinant. And even better:

1 of the Yankees games were postponed

1 of the Rangers games were postponed and made up the following game during a double header

1 of the Yankees games had crappy weather the entire day

2 other games had poor weather

That's a total of 5 of the 14 home games with bad weather, or 35% of the home games.

Weather plays a part in short term statistical data. It's just the way it works, because large variances in attendance can affect the average. It's not hard to understand. THEN, you throw in the following:

1. The Red Sox poor start. When the Red Sox are not playing well, their fans do not come out. Period. Look at the average attendance at Red Sox games that correspond to their losing (traveling, obviously not at home).

2. Economy. Ticket sales are down across ALL of MLB. There are only 9 teams out of 30 (see: 30%) that actually have attendance that is up. Hell, one of the teams that have attendance that is down is the Yankees.

3. Weather as said above (short term, can't use it once the year is over)

4. Losing

Anyways, thanks for at least posting that you haven't worked there in 8 years and you have no idea what the percentage is. I appreciate that.

[Sports Guy]

So let me get this straight, you haven't worked there since 2003, you have no idea what the exact percentage is, and you're saying I'm completely off when I gave you a percentage the year AFTER you stopped working there? Good grief. You come off high and mighty, bash someone for being COMPLETELY off, yet you:

1. Don't have the data

2. Haven't worked there in nearly 8 years

3. Are claiming 85%, when at the very least *1* year was around 60%

And you're still ignoring small sample sizes in regards to my data about the weather. The economy plays a huge part (why is attendance down across baseball, skip?). Hell, you just pointed out a point that actually counterfeits your "losing" idea, because if that one Red Sox game is well attended, it drives the sales up quite a bit. Hell, why are you ignoring the weather altogether? I'm going to post again, because you're doing your same spiel (ignore the points that you can't counterargue):

Anyways, thanks for at least posting that you haven't worked there in 8 years and you have no idea what the percentage is. I appreciate that.

I don't need to know the exact percentage to know exactly how things work.

As for not being there for 8 years...As I said, they have done more and more of the in season packages, which could effect the numbers..I am not sure.

However, I have sold several engagement rings to people who work down there or have recently left down there...I have talked to them, many times, about ticket sales, etc....same stuff always said.

I know you struggle with common sense but common sense tells the person of even average intelligence that a huge majority of tickets are sold preseason...in most years.

You provided an example where the % was much less...That's good. It shows that it can happen.

But treating an exception as a rule is foolish.

Season tickets will ALWAYS be the lifeblood of the organization in terms of ticket sales...that is the case for every team, in every sport.

That is where a huge majority of your tickets are sold. I will say that in 20 years, 28 years after working there. I don't need to work down there to understand common sense issues. I don't need an exact % to understand common sense issues.

Now, and I have stated this several times over the years, perhaps the Orioles walk up numbers have increased since I was down there..with season ticket sales suffering so much(because they gave sucked), they may get more fans walking up now vs before...that's certainly possible.

[LookitsPuck]

If you don't know the exact percentages, don't play the game. Period. I said it was over the majority, and I was right. You blathering at the mouth about 85% is just inane without proof.

You are discounting my posts again:

owever, what you ignore (and HAVE been ignoring) is that there are short term factors in play.

If in 5 home games, the weather was terrible for 2 of them, would the average attendance be accurate against the entire year? I'm curious if you'd even answer this. There have been 23 games, at the point of this thread we've had the following games:

3 against the Tigers

3 against the Rangers

4 against the Twins

3 against the Yankees

1? against the BoSox

For a total of: 14 games. That is 17% of the home games of the season. Not exactly the end all determinant. And even better:

1 of the Yankees games were postponed

1 of the Rangers games were postponed and made up the following game during a double header

1 of the Yankees games had crappy weather the entire day

2 other games had poor weather

That's a total of 5 of the 14 home games with bad weather, or 35% of the home games.

Weather plays a part in short term statistical data. It's just the way it works, because large variances in attendance can affect the average. It's not hard to understand. THEN, you throw in the following:

1. The Red Sox poor start. When the Red Sox are not playing well, their fans do not come out. Period. Look at the average attendance at Red Sox games that correspond to their losing (traveling, obviously not at home).

2. Economy. Ticket sales are down across ALL of MLB. There are only 9 teams out of 30 (see: 30%) that actually have attendance that is up. Hell, one of the teams that have attendance that is down is the Yankees.

3. Weather as said above (short term, can't use it once the year is over)

4. Losing

Go for it.

[Sports Guy]

If you don't know the exact percentages, don't play the game. Period. I said it was over the majority, and I was right. You blathering at the mouth about 85% is just inane without proof.

You are discounting my posts again:

Go for it.

Are you on your period or something? I am not discounting anything.

BTW, what percentages have you provided? You showed one season. I have years of declining attendance tied into losing and I worked down there and still have contact with some in the ticket office.

[LookitsPuck]

Are you on your period or something? I am not discounting anything.

BTW, what percentages have you provided? You showed one season. I have years of declining attendance tied into losing and I worked down there and still have contact with some in the ticket office.

Aside from 2004, I don't. But neither do you. You've worked there. Either you get the results or I call my contacts on Monday. No biggie. They should be able to confirm your 85% number easily right?

Anyways, you're discounting my post because you refuse to respond to the meat of it and instead choose to focus entirely on the weather and a number that you can't even prove yet.

[Wilshade]

Forgive me, SG. But, while I understand that the "vast majority" of tickets are sold prior to the beginning of the season, and the importance of selling season tickets . . . I do not understand why it is not important, or worth their while, for the Orioles to hustle a bit and try to sell as many tickets as possible during the season.

Yeah, attendance is down across MLB. Don't you think it is time to start thinking outside of the box and stop relying on the "that's how we have always done it" mentality?

[josh35b]

Is it just me, or are the giveaways this year worse than ever? I didn't notice any giveaways for kids. I remember when I was little, they would advertise giveaway nights on tv and I would always beg my dad to take me to those games. Wonder if that's the Orioles fault or advertisers not wanting to spend the money? Maybe the O's could split the cost with advertisers, or maybe work with multiple advertisers to put two ads on one hat or something. Or a mini bat with 100 ads on it!

[Wilshade]

Makes ya yearn for the days of Nolan Reimold Bobblehead Night, doesn't it?

[Sports Guy]

Aside from 2004, I don't. But neither do you. You've worked there. Either you get the results or I call my contacts on Monday. No biggie. They should be able to confirm your 85% number easily right?

Anyways, you're discounting my post because you refuse to respond to the meat of it and instead choose to focus entirely on the weather and a number that you can't even prove yet.

Actually, I am not responding to the rest of your post because really, I have nothing else to say. I don't disagree with the economy issue and things like that.

This all started because of your idiotic weather stuff...I have harped on that because you keep mentioning it as if its important after a few games in April and that the attendance has some great effect because of it...You are wrong.

I have no idea what your ticket person can confirm. When I was down there, they never showed us exact numbers...its all a guess based off of info that I know.

But, as I said, perhaps because the team has sucked so bad and they have lost so many season ticket holders, that maybe they get more walk up now than before...Maybe they sell more of those packages in season than before.

But what I do know is that the lifeblood of the ticket sales is season tickets and group sales and that, in the recent past(within the last 5 years or so), the Orioles were averaging around a 3000 walk up, which gives you somewhere in the area of 225-250K walk up ticket sales a year.

So, if you have 1.8M fans and you get 250K in walk ups, that is only about 14% of your ticket sales, which is why i said 85% sold preseason...But that is probably off because when i said that, i didn't consider the 6 pack stuff and little promos like that. But I would bet that walk up% is pretty close to accurate at this point.

Perhaps the dugout club stuff has greatly increased?

I don't know...But I do know for a 100% fact that the reason for the huge decline in attendance is because the team has sucked. There is no doubt about that. You can talk about the economy and things like that but if this team had been winning, then the stadium would be more full game in and game out.

You may not like that simplisitic answer but that doesn't make it less true.

[Sports Guy]

Forgive me, SG. But, while I understand that the "vast majority" of tickets are sold prior to the beginning of the season, and the importance of selling season tickets . . . I do not understand why it is not important, or worth their while, for the Orioles to hustle a bit and try to sell as many tickets as possible during the season.

Yeah, attendance is down across MLB. Don't you think it is time to start thinking outside of the box and stop relying on the "that's how we have always done it" mentality?

Who said this isn't important?