O'S may return to the GG defense of the 70's

[wildcard]

Watching the defensive team that Buck is able to put on the field reminds me of when the O's would annually strike gold every year with Brooks, Belanger, Blair, Powell. Every game was a highlight reel. We were so blessed to watch such incredible play night after night that we took it for granted at times. However, I think we all knew we were watching something very, very special.

Now I watch Hardy at SS with his range, arm and consistency. Reynolds with sparkling scoops, drives and double plays, Wieters with GG blocks of the ball and plate to go with a cannon for an arm. Jones and Markakis playing GG level defense in my book. To heck with UZR. Now we are watching something else very special on the left side of the field. Robert (The Cat) Andino is putting of a clinic at 3B. He is pounding of ball with amazing reflexes and strong accurate throws. This combination could be the edge the O's have been looking for to win those close games.

Some may say that Andino can't hit enough to be a regular at third - and they may be right. However, Andino is already hitting .320 with a .383 OBP vs lefties. Those are good stats for a top of the order hitter. If he can just learn to hit righties his defense would certainly keep him at 3rd on a daily basis.

With Britton of the mound and that defense behind him the O's would win a lot of games. Now if Matusz, Arrieta and the rest of the pitching staff could just raise their games we might have something special happening in Baltimore. Something that guys from the 70's could smile about and say, 'We used to play like that'.

[nate22]

It's just too bad the most catches behind our pitchers have come from the bleachers.

[Frobby]

Can I have some of whatever drugs you are taking?

Hardy is solid. Belanger was one of the best ever to play the game.

Andino looks solid so far. Brooks was the best of all time, by far.

Jones is controversial. Blair was indisputably spectacular.

Adams is shaky. Johnson was very solid, Grich was excellent and very underrated.

Reimold is a liability in LF. Buford was solid.

Reynolds seems fine at 1B. Boog was solid; good hands but limited range.

I might like Markakis better than Frank as a defensive RF, and Wieters is certainly spectacular behind the dish.

I'd rate the current O's defensive alignment as average at best.

[BaysoxFan39]

Both of you make great points. I would like to see consistency on the routine plays and Buck leaving Reynolds at first base permanently. From there if we can get any kind of decent pitching we can be competitive until our farm system comes around.

[wildcard]

Can I have some of whatever drugs you are taking?

Hardy is solid. Belanger was one of the best ever to play the game.

Andino looks solid so far. Brooks was the best of all time, by far.

Jones is controversial. Blair was indisputably spectacular.

Adams is shaky. Johnson was very solid, Grich was excellent and very underrated.

Reimold is a liability in LF. Buford was solid.

Reynolds seems fine at 1B. Boog was solid; good hands but limited range.

I might like Markakis better than Frank as a defensive RF, and Wieters is certainly spectacular behind the dish.

I'd rate the current O's defensive alignment as average at best.

Are you watching the games?

You are talking about star reputations versus guys that are building their reputations. I will not argue about Brooks or Blair. And I did not say a word about Adams or Reimold. When I watch the games the plays that are made by many of these guys are plays that Brooks, Blair, Powell and Belanger would have been proud of.

I was a fan when the O's were a powerhouse team. I know what that kind of the team looks like. All I am saying is that defensively this team is currently making plays that are of the caliber of some of the best in Orioles history. It a small sample. I would say it is a start. A beginning. Something to build on.

After watching Reynolds at 3rd and Andino learning how to play 2B earlier in the year, what is happening now on defense is impressive.

I hope you do realize that Hardy's play at SS is one of the best performance in almost a decade in the AL. The last time an AL SS has put up a .990 fielding percentage was Mike Bordick and Omar Vizquel in 2002. And neither of those guys hit like Hardy is hitting. Its down right impressive.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/ss/league/al/order/true

[brianod]

I play a game where you draft a team of all time players with a salary cap and play an entire 162 game season. The game is at www.imaginesports.com. If you love baseball, I'd advise you to take a look. It's a fascinating way to connect to baseball's past. When you draft a team, defense is an integral part of a players value. The evaluation of players is done by a diamond mind using a system originally developed by Bill James. Anyway, to give you an idea of how good the Orioles defense of the seventies was, according to diamond minds ratings: Belanger is the 4th best fielding ss of all time. He's behind Ozzie, L. Boudreau and Everitt Scott. Brooks is the best fielding 3b of all time. Blair is tied for the 5th best fielding centerfielder of all time. Slightly behind Speaker and Dimaggio. Tied with Willie Mays. Boog is average. Davey Johnson is 89th out of about 500 second basemen while Grich is 49th. Both 2bs are very good. Buford is 187 out of 800 leftfielders that are rated. (interesting Damon Buford is better then his Dad defensively). And Frank Robinson is 45th out of 700 right fielders. In short, the O's of the 70's had were the best defensive team of all time. No other team really comes close.

[crawjo]

I think in the last month the defense has certainly improved somewhat. Just getting Reynolds away from third base and replacing him with a competent defender has improved the defense. But I'd rate Markakis as average at best in terms of range (his arm is obviously above average) and Jones as below average for a CFer, and I say that without any reference to whatever their current UZR says. Reimold has good speed but I don't think he has very good instincts, nor does he get a good jump on the ball.

When Reynolds was at third I think our defense was probably the worst in baseball. Now that we have a decent defensive infield, and Reynolds is playing well at first, I'd say we are probably below average but definitely not the worst.

I don't know what the numbers say on Hardy but while I like his hands, everything else about his game has me unimpressed. His arm is not spectacular, his range is not very good. He's serviceable as a shortstop but nothing more.

[brianod]

I think in the last month the defense has certainly improved somewhat. Just getting Reynolds away from third base and replacing him with a competent defender has improved the defense. But I'd rate Markakis as average at best in terms of range (his arm is obviously above average) and Jones as below average for a CFer, and I say that without any reference to whatever their current UZR says. Reimold has good speed but I don't think he has very good instincts, nor does he get a good jump on the ball.

When Reynolds was at third I think our defense was probably the worst in baseball. Now that we have a decent defensive infield, and Reynolds is playing well at first, I'd say we are probably below average but definitely not the worst.

I don't know what the numbers say on Hardy but while I like his hands, everything else about his game has me unimpressed. His arm is not spectacular, his range is not very good. He's serviceable as a shortstop but nothing more.

Diamond mind rates Nick at average range with a very good arm. Jones has very good range in center with a very good arm, making him one of the best defensive centerfielders in the game.

[Sports Guy]

Nobody overrates a small sample size like WC does.

[wildcard]

I think in the last month the defense has certainly improved somewhat. Just getting Reynolds away from third base and replacing him with a competent defender has improved the defense. But I'd rate Markakis as average at best in terms of range (his arm is obviously above average) and Jones as below average for a CFer, and I say that without any reference to whatever their current UZR says. Reimold has good speed but I don't think he has very good instincts, nor does he get a good jump on the ball.

When Reynolds was at third I think our defense was probably the worst in baseball. Now that we have a decent defensive infield, and Reynolds is playing well at first, I'd say we are probably below average but definitely not the worst.

I don't know what the numbers say on Hardy but while I like his hands, everything else about his game has me unimpressed. His arm is not spectacular, his range is not very good. He's serviceable as a shortstop but nothing more.

Just my two cents:

While I agree the Hardy's arm strength is not in Miggy's category he is more accurate. His throws get to first from the hole sometimes on the bounce but beat the runner. His range is not as good as Andrus but he is has above average range IMO. Its is his consistency that makes him a GG caliber SS. If he gets to the ball he makes the play 99% of the time. At least this year.

Adam Jones has not been quite as good since he hurt his chest. He plays hurt a lot and the way he throws his body into walls and drives for ball he is playing banged up a lot. That is why I think some people don't give him the credit he is due. That and the fact he used to play too shallow. I think that has been corrected this year.

Markakis judges balls with the best of them. He always seems in position to make the play. Yes he drives a lot. Sometimes that is the only way for him to make the play. He doesn't have CFer speed but he has decent speed for a RFer. Runners mostly respect his arm. If they don't he makes them pay for it. He is a real heads up player.

[wildcard]

Nobody overrates a small sample size like WC does.

Its not overrating. Its calling them as they are. If things change that is fine. I am not afraid to say the Andino is playing a really good 3rd base right now. Even though he is not a popular player to be thought of as an everyday player. He might continue to play well or may not. That is not a reason not to recognize what he is doing now IMO.

I like that better then your style which is normally: 'He's no good.' Blunt and rude.

[El Gordo]

Ridiculous! Andino and Reynolds and Hardy make a few good plays the past few games, and suddenly it's 1970 again. :rolleyestf:

[Sports Guy]

Its not overrating. Its calling them as they are. If things change that is fine. I am not afraid to say the Andino is playing a really good 3rd base right now. Even though he is not a popular player to be thought of as an everyday player. He might continue to play well or may not. That is not a reason not to recognize what he is doing now IMO.

I like that better then your style which is normally: 'He's no good.' Blunt and rude.

My style? You mean being right?

How many projections have you made about this year's team that were remotely accurate?

To even mention this defense with any hint of what the 70s team was is disrespectful to those players and quite frankly, it is one of the dumber comps you will ever see on this site.

[wildcard]

Ridiculous! Andino and Reynolds and Hardy make a few good plays the past few games, and suddenly it's 1970 again. :rolleyestf:

Reread the OP. I said O's may return to GG not the have returned. I say the combination could give the O's the edge. Not it has or it will.

Nothing wrong with recognizing that the defense is playing well. Not just well but very well. The few games that Reynolds has played first and Andino as played 3rd have been such an improvement it should be noted.

Did you notice the O's have won 8 of 12? The defense has played an important role.

[wildcard]

What he said.

I do agree that their defense is much better right now than it was earlier in the year (even though admittedly I haven't watched nearly as much of late as I was earlier), but still on the "upper side of average" at best.

Well, I'd like to have you watch some games and then see what your opinion is then.