Ryan Braun Tests Positive For PEDs

[TJ Wrangler]

I thought testosterone testing was measured as a ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone, and in normal males it should be a ratio of 1:1. The testing doesn't flag until it reaches 4:1, which seems like a very high level (probably deliberately so) to claim it's "natural variation." Like, if your body naturally produced that much testosterone, there would be other visible side effects, like early puberty or hirsutism or something.

And MLB is full of genetically gifted, young male athletes who train hard. Why aren't they testing positive for elevated testosterone, too, if that's an explanation? Matt Kemp didn't. Justin Verlander and Jacoby Ellsbury didn't. Why just Braun?

I'd like to believe he didn't cheat and this is some big misunderstanding, but it seems like every time this happens, the person mounts the same vigorous defense only for it to come out later that they did exactly what they were accused of (see Landis, Floyd). I'm all done giving the benefit of the doubt.

Yes, but I wasn't talking about the actual test itself. I was just speculating how he could have tested negative afterward unless it was a short estered testosterone that had a few week detection time that had also almost cleared his system when he tested positive. It just seemed like we were missing a key piece of information there.

If the World Anti-Doping Agency is saying it's synthetic, then I have no doubt that he was using steroids. Truthfully, I really don't care if he did or didn't, but it just seems like he got caught at the last possible moment if he were to test negatively so shortly afterward.

[allstar1579]

I would hazard a guess that there are ways to beat the test. Not sure why he got caught this time. Remember the American Cyclist a few years back you won a pivotal race in the Tour de France with a huge win. He got caught too. Guys cheat and beat the system. The real mystery is how they slip up and get caught. I don't agree with JTrea about everyone cheating, but it's a heck of a lot more than just the ones getting caught.

Every ballplayer claims innocence. That's no surprise at all. I'm sure they'll come up with a great story. And if they can't come up with a great story, they'll come up with one like Brian Roberts (I just tried it once).

I actually believe Roberts though. Did they ever say what it was he tested positive for? PED or HGH? I got the impression he took some HGH with as fragile as he is. I mean his numbers have stayed the same before and after the period, despite the testing, he just misses a bunch of games. Let them all take HGH if it keeps them healthy.

[Can_of_corn]

I actually believe Roberts though. Did they ever say what it was he tested positive for? PED or HGH? I got the impression he took some HGH with as fragile as he is. I mean his numbers have stayed the same before and after the period, despite the testing, he just misses a bunch of games. Let them all take HGH if it keeps them healthy.

2003- 512 AB, 5 HR

2004- 734 AB, 4 HR

2005- 640 AB, 18 HR

Roberts only has one other season with more then 12 HR and that was in 717 AB.

[TJ Wrangler]

2003- 512 AB, 5 HR

2004- 734 AB, 4 HR

2005- 640 AB, 18 HR

Roberts only has one other season with more then 12 HR and that was in 717 AB.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bal-te.sp.roberts18dec18,0,769248.story

Seems to me that he used steroids once (one shot) in 2003 and had a sort of moral epiphany and decided not to use them again. I suppose I could believe that; it is much better than the "I used them once and didn't think they did anything for me" excuse.

[weams]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bal-te.sp.roberts18dec18,0,769248.story

Seems to me that he used steroids once (one shot) in 2003 and had a sort of moral epiphany and decided not to use them again. I suppose I could believe that; it is much better than the "I used them once and didn't think they did anything for me" excuse.

Larry Bigbie said otherwise, but I forgave Brian after he played that "We all make mistakes" walkup music for a year. I just don't respect him the way I used to. I mean, he had his arm torn of and recovered. I thought he was real tough.

[Can_of_corn]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bal-te.sp.roberts18dec18,0,769248.story

Seems to me that he used steroids once (one shot) in 2003 and had a sort of moral epiphany and decided not to use them again. I suppose I could believe that; it is much better than the "I used them once and didn't think they did anything for me" excuse.

For the record I am not particularly anti-steroids and I believe that a lot of folks in all the major sports are on something and have been for decades.

I think Roberts used repeatedly and when he was outed concocted the "moral epiphany and decided not to use them again" story.

[TJ Wrangler]

And if Braun has elevated testosterone, why hasn't he tested positive before? And in the minors? Or has he? Highly doubtful or that info would be out by now by his camp in regards to this situation...

From my understanding, the MLB uses a 2 step test. One to measure the testosterone and epitestosterone ratio, and if it exceeds the 4:1 threshold, it is farther tested to see if it was from a synthetic source. Most people will fall below that ratio, but it's not unheard of for people to exceed that ratio naturally.

[allstar1579]

2003- 512 AB, 5 HR

2004- 734 AB, 4 HR

2005- 640 AB, 18 HR

Roberts only has one other season with more then 12 HR and that was in 717 AB.

Right, in a vacuum it looks bad, but you have to look at the whole picture too. He hit 22 doubles in 112 games that year he hit 5 and then 50 the year he hit 4. Doubles to HR isn't a huge jump. He's stayed consistently in that 40-50 double range and mid-low teens in HR. Yeah 18 is the outlier, but then he had 16 and 56 doubles in 09 after the whole PED scandal, so you KNOW he was being tested regularly.

It's not like he went from 8 to 50 HR and back to 13 or something.

[TJ Wrangler]

For the record I am not particularly anti-steroids and I believe that a lot of folks in all the major sports are on something and have been for decades.

I think Roberts used repeatedly and when he was outed concocted the "moral epiphany and decided not to use them again" story.

That would not surprise me either. The only damning evidence against him was Larry Bigbie basically saying "I think he did them once or twice while I was there."

By all accounts, Brian Roberts is a hard working athlete with great character. I think in the end, that will speak louder than whether or not he used steroids more than once. As it should, in the grand scheme of things.

[TJ Wrangler]

Larry Bigbie said otherwise, but I forgave Brian after he played that "We all make mistakes" walkup music for a year. I just don't respect him the way I used to. I mean, he had his arm torn of and recovered. I thought he was real tough.

No doubt, he's a tough guy and a real gamer. I also think he played getting caught much better than most people do. I know you and I don't share the same attitude towards PED use, but in Brian's case, he is a lot easier to forgive.

[TonySoprano]

I blame Miguel Tejada...and his little black briefcase full of "B12" shots.

[Orioles0615]

Didn't Roberts try it and was like, look I tired I didn't like it, it was wrong, and never did it after. I can respect that. Unlike Braun who got results back in October, knew what happened while he sit and got a MVP award. It would of been nice if Braun said look I tested positive for something, right now I do not deserve this award give it to Kemp and I will try to figure out what went wrong with the test.

[allstar1579]

Roberts slugged .377 in the minors leagues, covering 1329 AB's. He totaled 55 2B, and 6 HR. His first three years in the majors were fairly similar, through 2003 with slugging lines of .341, .297. and .367. From 2004 to 2009 he slugged .377, .515, .410, .432, .450, .451. The Mitchell Report, which named Roberts, didn't come out until December of 2007. He admitted to using them once at that time. A cynical person such as myself might look at that .297 number in 2002 and think that Roberts figured he needed to do something if he wanted to have a career. Anything is possible. He might have told the truth. Of course, he originally lied and said he had never done steroids. A pretty huge jump in power production for a player who had never shown any before. Natural maturation? A clean weight program that he had never tried before? I don't know, but I have an opinion.

In college and the minors he was a completely different kind of player. It wasn't until he won the 2B job that he started to settle into what kind of hitter he was going to be. Another guy that played middle infield couldn't hit a lick, but was great with the glove, then spiked for a couple years to double, triple and even 6 times what he hit early on in his career. No one talks about Bordick as a user though.

[allstar1579]

Do you believe these players never used steroids until the day they were caught?

No, not at all. I think there are a bunch of players using now and not getting caught too. But I also believe anyone tied to that Mitchell Report was tested 4-5 times a year just so if they would be caught red handed and punished severely MLB could put the blame at the feet of those players and try to excuse the rest of the masses. The whole a few bad apples approach.

[weams]

No, not at all. I think there are a bunch of players using now and not getting caught too. But I also believe anyone tied to that Mitchell Report was tested 4-5 times a year just so if they would be caught red handed and punished severely MLB could put the blame at the feet of those players and try to excuse the rest of the masses. The whole a few bad apples approach.

I think Camden Yards vs Oakland did more for that guy. But who knows.

Lots of foul teritory in Oakland.