HHP: Do you agree with DD not handing our young pitchers automatic spots in the rotation?

[Singleton]

Not sure how almost anyone returning from the 2010 and 2011 pitching staff should be assured a spot. Why are Britton and Arrieta a lock for the rotation? Why should Matusz have the lead for the 4th or 5th spot? You want a spot in the rotation than go out and earn it!

Not to contradict my previous post but I think Britton is in a different situation than Matusz. He earned his spot last year. Unless he is a complete mess in spring training, he's in my rotation going north.

[GoldGlove21]

Arrieta could be one hell of a closer, IMO.

This is how I feel and we could save a ton of money if Arrieta is solid.

[Sports Guy]

Hint: if BMat, Arrieta etc. can't beat out their competitors in an open competition, then they probably aren't a long-term solution for this club.

However, as usual, I feel too much emphasis is placed on who is in the Opening Day rotation. Go with whoever seem to be the best 5 guys. If you are wrong, that will come out soon enough. Someone will get hurt, or struggle. Someone will be better than expected. Someone will be dominating at AAA. Over 162 games, any pitcher who is performing well is going to get plenty of opportunity.

You mean like how too much emphasis is being placed on Spring Training?

[Bradysburns]

Remember he almost sounded appalled that some of the cavalry hadn't done a full season at AA.

Haha. If he only knew... I think Brian Matusz was rushed, for example. And I think it's hurt him. So really, if DD is doing what it looks like - creating an environment where young pitchers can mature more slowly - it will be GOOD for guys like Matusz.

[Lucky Jim]

You mean like how too much emphasis is being placed on Spring Training?

To be fair, I think Frobby is saying that it's a long season, and if Matusz and Arrieta are in the kind of form we hope, it won't matter what the inventory is. They'll get their shot and be fine. I agree with this. It's the opposite of caring too much about ST performance.

[Bradysburns]

SG and Frobby have the right mindset.

Agreed, but we're talking about two things here, really. One, the starting rotation - who's going to win you the most games? That's a simple question for the MLB evaluators, and ST will tell you a lot.

Second, there's a deeper question of how we develop and reward talent in the minors. That's where the problem has surfaced in the past, at times. Rushing pitchers, or keeping them in the majors too long for lack of depth. As you alluded to earlier, the idea of keeping an excellent young pitcher at AA for an entire season *even if* he's mowing them down is an attractive idea, from a development/confidence perspective. I hope we start adopting that basic mindset. I've noticed a lot of successful organizations being more patient that way with their minor leaguers, and it seems to pay off.

[flashjordnk]

Haha. If he only knew... I think Brian Matusz was rushed, for example. And I think it's hurt him. So really, if DD is doing what it looks like - creating an environment where young pitchers can mature more slowly - it will be GOOD for guys like Matusz.

I don't think you can undo rushing of a prospect though. Isn't this the trick with deciding when to really bring people up? I'm guessing if we screwed him up by not letting him mature slowly enough then the ship on letting him feel comfortable in the minors has sailed. He's had his taste of the MLB, I'm sure his goal is to stay there. And if he pitches well in ST and he gets sent down anyway, I don't see him saying to himself "well at least I'm comfortable because I have a chance to mature slower now".

[flashjordnk]

To be fair, I think Frobby is saying that it's a long season, and if Matusz and Arrieta are in the kind of form we hope, it won't matter what the inventory is. They'll get their shot and be fine. I agree with this. It's the opposite of caring too much about ST performance.

He's also said numerous times he's not talking about performance. He's talking about a total assessment of how players approach ST. If they see the right "trends" they are looking for it's different. So in BMat's case it's about Velocity and keeping the ball down etc.

I also remember the wind being crazy last year and some guys hit a ton of homers and at times other guys hit balls really well that didn't go out. I think Frobby is advocating to take a more holistic look at the guys coming out, not just all numbers or all velocity or all anything.

[Sports Guy]

To be fair, I think Frobby is saying that it's a long season, and if Matusz and Arrieta are in the kind of form we hope, it won't matter what the inventory is. They'll get their shot and be fine. I agree with this. It's the opposite of caring too much about ST performance.

I don't even disagree with his point about it not making a difference who is in the OD rotation.

My issue is where the current depth chart appears to stand. Enough of the beat writers are saying the same thing to make me think they are all talking to the same people and getting the same vibe from all of them.

[flashjordnk]

I don't even disagree with his point about it not making a difference who is in the OD rotation.

My issue is where the current depth chart appears to stand. Enough of the beat writers are saying the same thing to make me think they are all talking to the same people and getting the same vibe from all of them.

Right, so I guess another question if Simon or Tillman comes in and wows everyone in ST, do they earn a spot over Matusz/Arrieta who might not have flashy numbers but has a solid camp and does the right things to earn his spot back?

IMO, Buck can't tell the Simons/Tillman's of the team they have a shot, then send them to AAA regardless of performance in ST. Or maybe he can...

[Frobby]

I don't think you can undo rushing of a prospect though. Isn't this the trick with deciding when to really bring people up? I'm guessing if we screwed him up by not letting him mature slowly enough then the ship on letting him feel comfortable in the minors has sailed. He's had his taste of the MLB, I'm sure his goal is to stay there. And if he pitches well in ST and he gets sent down anyway, I don't see him saying to himself "well at least I'm comfortable because I have a chance to mature slower now".

I don't buy into the theory that Matusz's troubles in 2011 had to do with the fact that he was rushed to the majors in 2009. Yes, he was rushed a little, but he did OK in 2009, and he did even better in 2010, and by the end of the year was looking like a dominant pitcher. Whatever happened in 2011 has little to do with how Matusz was treated in 2009 IMO.

[Sports Guy]

I don't buy into the theory that Matusz's troubles in 2011 had to do with the fact that he was rushed to the majors in 2009. Yes, he was rushed a little, but he did OK in 2009, and he did even better in 2010, and by the end of the year was looking like a dominant pitcher. Whatever happened in 2011 has little to do with how Matusz was treated in 2009 IMO.

Of course this is true. That's a bs excuse.

Bmat struggled last year because of the injury, out of whack mechanics and a confidence issue.

I am positive that he can be healthy and get his mechanics right...I am not positive that what is going on between his ears will ever be right...we just don't know yet.

Does he strive to be great...or even good? If not, he will fail.

If he has the right mind set, gets in shape and comes in ready to go, then he will be fine.

[Singleton]

Haha. If he only knew... I think Brian Matusz was rushed, for example. And I think it's hurt him. So really, if DD is doing what it looks like - creating an environment where young pitchers can mature more slowly - it will be GOOD for guys like Matusz.

I pretty strongly disagree. On what basis do you think Matusz was rushed? He had 32 starts in 2010. Even when he wasn't having great results, he never looked overmatched. At the end of a full year in the majors, the buzz locally and nationally was that Matusz was a guy on the rise. Were you claiming he was rushed when he looked dominant at the end of 2010?

The arc of player performance is rarely a straight line up and up - no matter how long they stay in the minors and just because a young player struggles, it doesn't mean he was rushed -- there are a host of other explanations.

[Moose Milligan]

I think Guthrie, Britton and Arrieta have done enough to earn spots. Everyone else has to fight for theirs, especially Matusz.

I suppose Chen automatically gets a spot, right?

[flashjordnk]

I think Guthrie, Britton and Arrieta have done enough to earn spots. Everyone else has to fight for theirs, especially Matusz.

I suppose Chen automatically gets a spot, right?

So what's yoru criteria for the fight it out spot? ST numbers? If you were Buck what would you be looking for?