Roch: Trade talks with Jones are "intensifying" again?

[crawjo]

I have to admit I've reached the point with Jones where I hope he is traded. I don't have anything against him, but my eyes (not the defensive metrics) have told me he's a subpar defensive center fielder (except for that arm) for awhile, and I don't think he'll ever be a high OBP guy. I like having him on the team, but the reality is that we aren't going to win with him, and I think that moving him will create the opportunity to significantly improve our team defense. In fact, if we ended up dealing Jones for prospects and shoved Endy Chavez in center, I think I'd be okay with that if Endy brought his glove with him.

[backwardsk]

Mikegallo, why did Adam Jones only hit one more homerun at OPACY from 08-10 than he did on the road during those years? Why does the pronounced park effect not hold true for 75% of Jones' tenure?

[mikegallo]

I have to admit I've reached the point with Jones where I hope he is traded. I don't have anything against him, but my eyes (not the defensive metrics) have told me he's a subpar defensive center fielder (except for that arm) for awhile, and I don't think he'll ever be a high OBP guy. I like having him on the team, but the reality is that we aren't going to win with him, and I think that moving him will create the opportunity to significantly improve our team defense. In fact, if we ended up dealing Jones for prospects and shoved Endy Chavez in center, I think I'd be okay with that if Endy brought his glove with him.

Me too if we can get even one of those PP I would do it but go ahead DD string them along get all you can just make sure you get it done.

[mikegallo]

Mikegallo, why did Adam Jones only hit one more homerun at OPACY from 08-10 than he did on the road during those years? Why does the pronounced park effect not hold true for 75% of Jones' tenure?

For one many of the road parks he plays in are very homer friendly....But I think using all the data instead of whatever suits your argument is best. Therefore I would use his home/run splits from 08 to 11 which is what I did and part of how I reached my conclusion.

[byrdz]

[backwardsk]

For one many of the road parks he plays in are very homer friendly....But I think using all the data instead of whatever suits your argument is best. Therefore I would use his home/run splits from 08 to 11 which is what I did and part of how I reached my conclusion.

So this time last year, you wouldn't say that OPACY helped his homerun totals. What changed in 2011?

[CA-ORIOLE]

So this time last year, you wouldn't say that OPACY helped his homerun totals. What changed in 2011?

Melting of the OPACY ice caps.

[erb8472]

For one many of the road parks he plays in are very homer friendly....But I think using all the data instead of whatever suits your argument is best. Therefore I would use his home/run splits from 08 to 11 which is what I did and part of how I reached my conclusion.

If you look at his career as an Oriole it's true that he does have more home runs at home than on the road, but it's also true that last season (1 season out of 4) is the reason for the first statement being true.

[TiredofLosing20]

Backing out 2011, why are Jones' homerun splits basically even (+1 for home) in his previous 3 Oriole seasons? TiredofLosing asked this earlier, I quoted it, but still hasn't been answered.

It won't get answered. Also, why does Reynolds, who has a similar skillset to Jones (as defined by mikegallo) that being power actually have a higher ISO away than he did at home.

Jones is a very good player that may have experienced an anomaly in 2011 in regards to his power home/away splits. There is also a possibility that mikegallo is correct and that Jones just suddenly only has power in OPACY. The point is that I am pretty certain (tho not 100% certain) that the Braves (or whoever) are not using this conclusion to assign value to Jones.

But again, we are just homers.

[TiredofLosing20]

Using hyperbole or whatever isn't making anything up..

This is always untrue.

[erb8472]

For one many of the road parks he plays in are very homer friendly....But I think using all the data instead of whatever suits your argument is best. Therefore I would use his home/run splits from 08 to 11 which is what I did and part of how I reached my conclusion.

I strongly doubt Atlanta is taking his home/road home run totals into much consideration if they are interested.

I agree that if you looked at last year only it would appear that he would not hit as many home runs in Atlanta.

However you are also not taking into account the better lineup that he would be in and that he would be facing lesser pitching than he does in the AL.

[TiredofLosing20]

The point have any player being over or under valued by the board is an argument no 'outsider' has ever or will ever win, just way to many people who can pick apart your words for you to stand a chance...

This simply isn't true. There have been many "outsiders" who have made very valid arguments about Oriole players. They typically avoid hyperbole (especially the intentional kind) and words like never, ever, always, all, and none.

The fact that AJ is greatly helped by his home park can be seen in his splits. Park factors show OPACY to greatly help his best skill and whether it is the best park or 5th best park in baseball in doing this really doesn't matter. What matters is we agree OPACY greatly helps HRs compared to the average park...Given that fact and AJs splits we can all concur with the Braves fans in some fashion, who see him as not worth the asking price DD and many other people on here are seeking.

His splits were heavily skewed in 2011. The other 1,000 or so ABs would disagree. His 2011 stats are significantly different from the rest of his Oriole career.

To squabble over the best or 5th best HR environment is, in my mind, a derail of a thread about an AJ trade.

I don't necessarily disagree with this however this board is tough. It demands accuracy and punishes hyperbole. To me, its what makes this board the only O's board I post on. To others I am sure it can be grating. As such, I guess you either have to be better or move along. I am sure that there are other boards where your approach is welcomed. You seem like a genuinely baseball knowledgeable person but your approach here will result in exactly well... this thread. That's not LJs fault and this isn't your first rodeo on this site.

If the thread was HOW MUCH DOES AJ GETS HELPED BY OPACY then yes that small difference from 1st to 5th would be worth the 40 posts about it. Since it is an AJ trade to Braves thread then me trying to percieve his value to the Braves is very important indeed.

The point that I think you are missing is that you are using the argument that AJ GETS HELPED BY OPACY to support your estimation of the value the Braves put on Jones. That is why it is as important as your discussion of what you perceive to be his value.

[erb8472]

In his career Jones has a .756 OPS. He has a career .841 OPS vs NL teams.

In his career he has homered once in every 32 PA's. He has homered once in every 23 PA's against NL teams.

[allstar1579]

A) People wonder why the core group here has a hard time accepting new people sometimes.

B) Who said anything about it being trade conversations with the Braves? I'm sure he's shopping him all over, including SF and WAS especially.

[Fan4Life]

Braves sign Jack Wilson.. so Andino has one less destination.