Rate the Guthrie trade (Poll)

[Frobby]

Jeremy was our Ace, but he was not an Ace.

He had a .420 winning percentage as an Oriole, .385 over the last three years. For whatever reason, he didn't win games. I'm pretty sure that whoever replaces him in the rotation won't do any worse from a W/L standpoint, even if they can't match his ERA and IP. Heck, maybe Hammel will turn out to be a lucky pitcher.

[SrMeowMeow]

He had a .420 winning percentage as an Oriole, .385 over the last three years. For whatever reason, he didn't win games. I'm pretty sure that whoever replaces him in the rotation won't do any worse from a W/L standpoint, even if they can't match his ERA and IP. Heck, maybe Hammel will turn out to be a lucky pitcher.

The reason is run support. I doubt Hammel will have any control over that.

[cliff]

We gave up: 1 year of an average 32 yr-old pitcher

We got: 2 years of an 29 yr-old average pitcher + a decent bullpen arm

obviously we would have all wanted a nice looking prospect in return, but from a pure value-to-value standpoint, the trade isn't THAT bad. I don't think a 32 year old average starting pitcher owed $10mil going to net a significant piece of the future anyways.

[oriolesacox]

We gave up: 1 year of an average 32 yr-old pitcher

We got: 2 years of an 29 yr-old average pitcher + a decent bullpen arm

obviously we would have all wanted a nice looking prospect in return, but from a pure value-to-value standpoint, the trade isn't THAT bad. I don't think a 32 year old average starting pitcher owed $10mil going to net a significant piece of the future anyways.

Pretty much my thinking. Hopefully if Hammel is Guthrie 2.0, he can net us those prospects we were all looking for.

[Eddie_Ripken]

I voted B-/C+. I think Hammel and Guthrie are a near wash. We get a RP with a little potential. If it's true the arb case with Guthrie was going to get ugly then I'm fine with it. Guthrie was one of my favorites and I am glad he gets a shot to compete now.

I want to think there is more to making this trade than has been mentioned but I don't think there is.

[Say O!]

We gave up: 1 year of an average 32 yr-old pitcher

We got: 2 years of an 29 yr-old average pitcher + a decent bullpen arm

obviously we would have all wanted a nice looking prospect in return, but from a pure value-to-value standpoint, the trade isn't THAT bad. I don't think a 32 year old average starting pitcher owed $10mil going to net a significant piece of the future anyways.

Well said.

To me, this trade says more about the macro environment now. Young and cost-controlled pitching has value. Old(er) and FA pitching for average to above average starters is not valued.

This trend has been going on all offseason as seen through trades (Gio, Cahill) and FA signings (EJax). GMs do not want to pay in terms of prospects or $$$ for middle of the road starters. Select clubs will ante up for aces, but the mid-tier (if expensive) does not carry the same cost/opportunity trade-off.

[Floater]

It's not like Guthrie was that good or anything. The bullpen got better and the SP swap is probably going to be a wash, if not better. Plus, we saved some money. C-, potentially a C+. Not really that big of a difference but I think a lot of people here are overvaluing Guts by a mile and the reaction is more emotional because of the guy he was and how long he has been with the O's.

[Sports Guy]

The trade itself, in a vacuum, is fine.

But big picture, it just didn't do much for the team. Its a much better trade if you get a B prospect instead of Lindstrom.

[Lucky Jim]

The trade itself, in a vacuum, is fine.

But big picture, it just didn't do much for the team. Its a much better trade if you get a B prospect instead of Lindstrom.

Unless you think B prospects are significantly over-valued.

[nevadaO]

I actually really like both Hammel and Lindstrom, but I graded it down because I would have wanted prospects in return. I guess you have to take what you can get though.

Hammel has pretty good stuff and getting out of the thin air in Colorado will help him.

Lindstrom throws his fastball in the 96-98 mph range.

On a side note, I think Guthrie is going to be horrible in Coors. I would not be shocked to see huge home/road splits for him this year.

[jonesing4pie]

Some of you really try to look at the bright side. The players we received in return are guys that are easily found on the free agent market. Neither is young. Neither has much upside. Why not trade for a prospect with actual upside? I know we aren't going to get a top prospect for Guts but this team is far from a win now stage, and to trade our most valuable veteran pitcher for other mediocre veteran pitchers doesn't make sense for where this team is.

Again, I know Guts isn't worth that much, but this team isn't going to compete anytime soon so why not acquire guys that have some sort of upside even if they are risky?

[REDMAN]

How would you rate this trade in terms of what we gave up vs. what we get back?

B-C+ Orioles get another number 3-4 starter for a 3-4 starter and a potential closer.A trade that should help both teams!

[Icterus galbula]

C-

I'm annoyed we didn't get someone with a higher ceiling than Hammel and that it seems the arbitration process was a factor. I'm not as irritated now as when I first saw the deal, but am still non-plussed.

[DrungoHazewood]

We gave up: 1 year of an average 32 yr-old pitcher

We got: 2 years of an 29 yr-old average pitcher + a decent bullpen arm

obviously we would have all wanted a nice looking prospect in return, but from a pure value-to-value standpoint, the trade isn't THAT bad. I don't think a 32 year old average starting pitcher owed $10mil going to net a significant piece of the future anyways.

Yes, this is my take. They traded a 3-ish win pitcher with one year left under contract at 80% of market value for two guys of similar value (but with some upside) at similar costs. Hammel's uncertainty, and the idea that he can get back to being a 4-win pitcher makes this a mild win for me. If all three pitchers live up to their top billing you've dealt one year of a 3-4 win Guthrie for two years of 3-4 win Hammel and 1-win Lindstrom. At their respective salaries that's more value coming back than going out.

[oriolesacox]

Some of you really try to look at the bright side. The players we received in return are guys that are easily found on the free agent market. Neither is young. Neither has much upside. Why not trade for a prospect with actual upside? I know we aren't going to get a top prospect for Guts but this team is far from a win now stage, and to trade our most valuable veteran pitcher for other mediocre veteran pitchers doesn't make sense for where this team is.

Again, I know Guts isn't worth that much, but this team isn't going to compete anytime soon so why not acquire guys that have some sort of upside even if they are risky?

Who's to say we could of acquired prospects for him? I'm surprised by the gross over reaction of this trade.