Mussina elected to Orioles Hall of Fame! (Also Dauer and Youse) w/Mussina reaction

[Oriology]

I'm not as passionate about this subject as Tony is, but I am going to align myself with the vocal minority on this one. As much as one can defend Mussina personally for being "low-balled" and mistreated by Angelos, it doesn't really make me WANT to induct him into the O's HOF. There is still a very real sense in which he could have stayed no matter what, and the fact that he chose to go to the Yankees, who at that time were enemy #1 because of (1) their spending power and general organizational attitude/framework, (2) their status as divisional rivals, and (3) the wounds of the playoff defeat in 1996 (this, for me personally, was a great intensifier of my hatred for the Yanks), was in itself a willful severance from the organization. We do not owe him anything, and I, personally, have no desire to see him in the Orioles HOF. I don't hate Mussina because he left, I just have no interest in seeing him in the Orioles HOF, regardless of how good the numbers are. This revolves around the nature of his separation from the organization, not just the simple fact that he left.

[flashjordnk]

This is any easy question. Fan hatred is so far out there from the feelings of the vast majority of people actually in the industry that it's almost comical.

Yeah there was a ridiculous conversation about this on Mike and Mike today actually. Where they debated, (1) if Louisville fans would rather they beat Kentucky than win a national championship and (2) if the curse of the Red Sox was broken when they came back against the Yankees from 0-3 or if it was when they won the World Series.

In a perfect world Mussina stays. But in a perfect world the Orioles have an above .500 record. I also wonder if others vitriol towards Mussina would be lessened if the O's fielded 4 or 5 competitive teams in the intermediary. It's almost as if they hate him for leaving and partially blame him for the Orioles sucking all these years too. I guess in a really perfect world, the O's aren't owned by Peter Angelos. I'm curious why people doesn't spell his name Angelo$ the same way they've labeled Mussina.

[Frobby]

Another thing I don't get is why some fans expect loyalty from the players to the organization, when there is no loyalty running in the other direction. The Orioles have never been reluctant to trade players who have been important to the organization, or cut them. They traded Frank Robinson after he'd helped to lead the team to four pennants in six years. You know what? Frank was my favorite player, but I'm over it. You could look at the list of the Orioles Hall of Fame, and half the players on there were traded away by the team. No loyalty there, but we're going to villify a player for leaving?

[Can_of_corn]

So does Cust signing with the Yankees today eliminate him from future consideration?

[flashjordnk]

I don't hate Mussina because he left, I just have no interest in seeing him in the Orioles HOF, regardless of how good the numbers are. This revolves around the nature of his separation from the organization, not just the simple fact that he left.

How easily we forget...In 1996 Mussina had the 4th highest WAR on the team. In 1997 he was #1. (BBref)

Your stance seems to indicate you'd rather not had him at all if he was going to desert you like he did. And yet he 1996 playoff defeat you so bitterly hate may not happen without him.

[Prayin4Reign]

This whole thing about Mussina being a traitor is comical to me (this from a fan of the O's for over 40yrs). Baseball is a business. Plain and simple. Mussina served the Orioles extremely well while he played here, he deserves to be in the Orioles HOF. Is he in the same category as legendary Orioles such as Brooks, Cal and Earl? No, not at all. But congratulations to Mike just the same, he had a tremendous amount of success while here.

[Tony-OH]

Another thing about Mussina. COnsider that in this franchise's best chance for a World Title in the 29 years since '83(god knows how much longer it will be) the man was brillant during the '97 postseason. The following are his pitching lines

ALDS GM 1 vs Seattle: 7 IP, 5 hits, 2 er, 0 BB, 9 Ks (beats Randy Johnson)

ALDS GM 4 vs Seattle: 7 IP, 2 hits, 1 er, 3 BB, 7 Ks (beats Randy Johnson)

ALCS GM 3 vs Cleveland: 7 IP, 3 hits, 1 er, 2 BB, 15 Ks( no decision)

ALCS Gm 6 vs Cleveland: 8 IP, 1 hit, 0 er, 2 BB, 10 Ks ( no decision)

IN all thats: 2-0, 29 IP, 41 Ks 1.24 ERA, .62 WHIP

That's pure brillance.If his teammates around him do their jobs in the ALCS and they go on to win the World Series I would have to think that, even with Mussina moving on to New York 3 years later, a lot of the hate spewed towards Mike from Baltimore fans doesn't exist.

Not true. I have nothing but respect for what Mike Mu$$ina did on the field while an Oriole. I'd imagine that most people who dislike Mu$$ina dislike him because he's the only drafted and developed Orioles All-star to ever leave the team and join the arch-enemy Yankees. Many people don't hold that against him and that's their opinion, but for me, as the only one to ever do that, he's not HoF worthy, and especially not on the first ballot.

[Prayin4Reign]

Another thing I don't get is why some fans expect loyalty from the players to the organization, when there is no loyalty running in the other direction. The Orioles have never been reluctant to trade players who have been important to the organization, or cut them. They traded Frank Robinson after he'd helped to lead the team to four pennants in six years. You know what? Frank was my favorite player, but I'm over it. You could look at the list of the Orioles Hall of Fame, and half the players on there were traded away by the team. No loyalty there, but we're going to villify a player for leaving?

Exactly. This traitor stuff makes no sense. It's a business and it works both ways. End of story.

[TonySoprano]

Another thing I don't get is why some fans expect loyalty from the players to the organization, when there is no loyalty running in the other direction. The Orioles have never been reluctant to trade players who have been important to the organization, or cut them. They traded Frank Robinson after he'd helped to lead the team to four pennants in six years. You know what? Frank was my favorite player, but I'm over it. You could look at the list of the Orioles Hall of Fame, and half the players on there were traded away by the team. No loyalty there, but we're going to villify a player for leaving?

The answer already noted was because he went to the Yankees. I've said before that we may see them as our rival, but the reverse isn't true. We're their slump busters. I don't know why Singleton gets a pass for broadcasting for the Yankees. Did he ask to work for the Orioles,and was turned down?

[jabba72]

I'm happy that Mussina never won a ring in New York, but at the same time I understand him leaving. As an insider, Mussina knew the team was in for alot of losing. And he wanted to win. It should have been a wakeup call when Mussina left for a divisional rival, but for some reason it wasn't.

[Frobby]

The answer already noted was because he went to the Yankees. I've said before that we may see them as our rival, but the reverse isn't true. We're their slump busters. I don't know why Singleton gets a pass for broadcasting for the Yankees. Did he ask to work for the Orioles,and was turned down?

There have been very few seasons when the Yankees and Orioles were both really good at the same time. The only close pennant races they were ever in together were 1964, 1974, 1977, 1980, 1996 and 1997. All six times the Orioles went to the World Series, the Yankees were a non-factor. Objectively speaking, 6 fairly close pennant races in 58 years doesn't make much of a rivalry.

[cindyluvsbrady]

Cindy DOES not love MO$$$e!!

[cindyluvsbrady]

Not true. I have nothing but respect for what Mike Mu$$ina did on the field while an Oriole. I'd imagine that most people who dislike Mu$$ina dislike him because he's the only drafted and developed Orioles All-star to ever leave the team and join the arch-enemy Yankees. Many people don't hold that against him and that's their opinion, but for me, as the only one to ever do that, he's not HoF worthy, and especially not on the first ballot.

I agree Tony!!!!

[Pedro Cerrano]

There have been very few seasons when the Yankees and Orioles were both really good at the same time. The only close pennant races they were ever in together were 1964, 1974, 1977, 1980, 1996 and 1997. All six times the Orioles went to the World Series, the Yankees were a non-factor. Objectively speaking, 6 fairly close pennant races in 58 years doesn't make much of a rivalry.

I'd suggest that the Blue Jays are a bigger "rival" to the O's than the Yankees are. 1989 still resonates with me and we've been much more the Jays' equal the last 15 years than we've been the Yankees' equal.

Coincidentally, the rivalry was further heightened by Cito Gaston's reluctance to put in Mike Mussina in the 1993 All-Star Game.

[Nigel Tufnel]

There have been very few seasons when the Yankees and Orioles were both really good at the same time. The only close pennant races they were ever in together were 1964, 1974, 1977, 1980, 1996 and 1997. All six times the Orioles went to the World Series, the Yankees were a non-factor. Objectively speaking, 6 fairly close pennant races in 58 years doesn't make much of a rivalry.

I might also include 1981 - if I'm remembering it right the O's had a better record that year, but missed out on the playoffs because of the split season caused by the strike. I guess there wasn't a direct pennant race, but it felt like maybe the Yankees took a playoff spot that belonged to the O's.

Still, that's just 7 of 58, so it doesn't really change your point at all.