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ESPN Trade Proposal: Hardy to Cards for RHP Joe Kelly and RHP Maikel Cleto

Migrant Redbird

By Migrant Redbird
in Orioles Talk

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Annie AA

Annie

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I don't think anyone is untouchable. I just need to know the whole plan before I agree to trade Hardy. I know this is a message board and we are just discussing things, but the whole "lets trade Hardy and move Machado to SS" thing that I've heard since the season ended is just half of the story of that move.

Hardy gets traded to the Cardinals. You aren't going to see me pissed that he is traded. You will see me pissed if Schoop is our starting 3B next year and we got two AA average prospects for Hardy.

YES YES YES. I don't think Hardy or anyone for that matter is untouchable. But, like Brendan said, there are two sides to every coin and if you trade hardy...we need to have a viable fill for 3B or SS and as of yet, I'm not convinced that there really is any. Schoop has potential, I mean....who knows? As of right at this moment I really, really don't like the idea of moving him up quite yet.

I do think Manny is SS of the future, as much as I actually really like him at 3b, but from what everything DD has said...he is happy with defense at the left for 13'. changes will be made there for sure...but not for next season. IMO.

all that being said, Hardy has a window for a pretty lucrative trade right now. He's 30....not old....but in a few years his value will be going down (assuming he follows a downward trend defensively). Considering that, DD may choose to move him sooner rather than later.

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MurphDogg Hangout Grand Counsel

MurphDogg

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Just posted this in the klaw chat thread but this seems more appropriate here. What about a deal that centered around Hardy for Freese? They do have Matt Carpenter who started 22 games at 3b last year and hit a bunch of doubles as a part time player. It could be a trade where both teams are trading from a strength. It would save us 6 million this year.

That is not a bad idea. Not sure the Cardinals would go for it because they probably see Freese as being on the rise with 4.1 WAR over his first full season as a starter. In reality though, Freese will be 29 in April and is only 8 months younger than Hardy. Freese would seem to have more value because he is arbitration eligible for the next three seasons, while Hardy is making 7 million a year for the next two seasons. Not sure what else it would take, but this idea definitely makes sense for both teams.

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golden1 Rookie

golden1

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How about trading Hardy for Kelly & Cleto, and then sending those two plus Arrieta and Tillman to SD for Headley. Essentially Hardy, Tillman, Arrieta for Headley. That would get us the middle of the order bat we need, put a gold glove at 3rd, and a future gold glove at SS.

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Annie AA

Annie

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How about trading Hardy for Kelly & Cleto, and then sending those two plus Arrieta and Tillman to SD for Headley. Essentially Hardy, Tillman, Arrieta for Headley. That would get us the middle of the order bat we need, put a gold glove at 3rd, and a future gold glove at SS.

how likely are the Padres to part with him? Don't actually hate the idea....but don't like parting with Tillman.

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Brendan25 All-Star

Brendan25

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Yeah, a lot of folks here seem to think it's somehow physically impossible to find a 3Bman if the O's trade Hardy and move Machado to SS. I don't know exactly who is available, but I'm sure there are ways to acquire a 3rd baseman. And I do know that the O's offensive production at 2nd, SS, and 3B wasn't good last year, so insisting so strongly (as several here have) that they stay the course next season with what they had last season sounds exceedingly stubborn - for the short-term, long-term, medium-turn, turnturnterm, and any other term.

It's even more stubborn to be preaching to trade JJ Hardy and to move Machado to short with NO answers as to who is playing 3rd.

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notyourbuddy All-Star

notyourbuddy

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If someone offers a good haul of prospects for Hardy you could technically accept, move Machado to shortstop, and sign Youkilis as a 3B stopgap.

2013 offense (possibly improves)

2013 defense (suffers a bit)

2013 durability (youk might be injury prone)

2013 farm system (improves with the pieces Hardy brings back)

And Machado becomes the longterm shortstop.

Seems like moving chairs just for the sake of moving chairs so I wouldn't do it as I like the Hardy + Machado combo. But, its possible. Get a young 3B as one of the prospects and you possibly have a trade that makes some sense going forward.

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Spirus AA

Spirus

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That is not a bad idea. Not sure the Cardinals would go for it because they probably see Freese as being on the rise with 4.1 WAR over his first full season as a starter. In reality though, Freese will be 29 in April and is only 8 months younger than Hardy. Freese would seem to have more value because he is arbitration eligible for the next three seasons, while Hardy is making 7 million a year for the next two seasons. Not sure what else it would take, but this idea definitely makes sense for both teams.

Freese is also a hometown St. Louis boy, a world series hero just one year ago, and the fans love him (he was very high on the jersey sales list released a few months back). So that would discourage a trade. Plus from our perspective, he's injury prone, this was his first 'full' MLB season and he still only managed 500 at-bats. I'd rather get Matt Carpenter plus some pitching (maybe Lance Lynn who might be pushed out of a rotation spot next year) back if we absolutely had to make a trade.

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Il BuonO Hangout Grand Counsel

Il BuonO

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How about trading Hardy for Kelly & Cleto, and then sending those two plus Arrieta and Tillman to SD for Headley. Essentially Hardy, Tillman, Arrieta for Headley. That would get us the middle of the order bat we need, put a gold glove at 3rd, and a future gold glove at SS.

Tillman isn't going anywhere. The Giants formula should have shown everyone that pitching wins championships and the Orioles aren't about to part with a guy who just might be on the verge of a breakout season.

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notyourbuddy All-Star

notyourbuddy

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How about trading Hardy for Kelly & Cleto, and then sending those two plus Arrieta and Tillman to SD for Headley. Essentially Hardy, Tillman, Arrieta for Headley. That would get us the middle of the order bat we need, put a gold glove at 3rd, and a future gold glove at SS.

Headley had a great second half power surge (.592 SLG%). That is Miguel Cabrera, Josh Hamilton, Ryan Braun territory. Pretty remarkable considering over his career he has struggled to even post a .400 SLG%. Screams of unsustainable hot streak to me.

Wouldn't surprise me if going forward he is simply a .267/.368/.413 offensive player (his first half stats) with a solid glove. Nice offensive stats, but heck Nick Markakis can beat those #'s in his sleep and everyone seems to be in agreement he is no MOO bat.

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Brendan25 All-Star

Brendan25

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If someone offers a good haul of prospects for Hardy you could technically accept, move Machado to shortstop, and sign Youkilis as a 3B stopgap.

2013 offense (possibly improves)

2013 defense (suffers a bit)

2013 durability (youk might be injury prone)

2013 farm system (improves with the pieces Hardy brings back)

And Machado becomes the longterm shortstop.

Seems like moving chairs just for the sake of moving chairs so I wouldn't do it as I like the Hardy + Machado combo. But, its possible. Get a young 3B as one of the prospects and you possibly have a trade that makes some sense going forward.

See now this would be a realistic scenario.

I think that it would need to be a really good haul for Hardy that would make this move make sense though.

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