SI AL East Hot Stove Report

[Ruzious]

The O's win 93, and experts say we may be a team looking to move some guys like Hardy or Jim Johnson and even Nick Markakis was mentioned. The same experts, said the Red Sox arent that far away. So a 90+ win team should be dismantled, but a 90+ loss team, isnt that far away? I thought winning games, would get us some respect. Guess not.

Your definition of respect doesn't match up with mine. The O's deserve a TON of respect for over-achieving last year, and I think the national media understands that. When a team does better than it's talent would lead a reasonable person to believe it should, that's the best way to earn respect.

[DrungoHazewood]

The O's win 93, and experts say we may be a team looking to move some guys like Hardy or Jim Johnson and even Nick Markakis was mentioned. The same experts, said the Red Sox arent that far away. So a 90+ win team should be dismantled, but a 90+ loss team, isnt that far away? I thought winning games, would get us some respect. Guess not.

I thought you might be able to take a step back and realize the O's did play over their heads, and still have some holes and likely points of regression. A plausible solution is to trade from strengths. While the Sox are sitting on a giant pile of cash, and aren't exactly a crippled franchise - they have a decent base of talent and a good farm system and resources to fix things quickly.

It's foolish to just look at 2012 record.

[Roll Tide]

Ce

I thought you might be able to take a step back and realize the O's did play over their heads, and still have some holes and likely points of regression. A plausible solution is to trade from strengths. While the Sox are sitting on a giant pile of cash, and aren't exactly a crippled franchise - they have a decent base of talent and a good farm system and resources to fix things quickly.

It's foolish to just look at 2012 record.[/quote

Its easy to want to embrace 2012 as much for the good season as the long dry spell. I agree the Orioles need to upgrade and they need better solutions than bringing back Reynolds. As i said they need 2 moo type bats to replace

Reynolds and Thome. Guys who can take pressure off Jones. It would be nice to see them get a #1 starter. But i dont see it happening. So id be okay if they bring bach Saunders.

[Dark Helmet]

I thought you might be able to take a step back and realize the O's did play over their heads, and still have some holes and likely points of regression. A plausible solution is to trade from strengths. While the Sox are sitting on a giant pile of cash, and aren't exactly a crippled franchise - they have a decent base of talent and a good farm system and resources to fix things quickly.

It's foolish to just look at 2012 record.

Your looking to deep into what im saying. I understand it took a lit to go right, to get 93 wins. But, you dont think the heart this team showed all year, and the fight it showed in all the extra inning games, in which they went 17+ twice, and win both, doesnt dezerve respect? If not, I guess your standards are jyst higher than mine. A man with a prostetic leg enters the NY marathon, sure hes not expected to win, but he deserves respect just for the effort.

[Dark Helmet]

Your definition of respect doesn't match up with mine. The O's deserve a TON of respect for over-achieving last year, and I think the national media understands that. When a team does better than it's talent would lead a reasonable person to believe it should, that's the best way to earn respect.

Basically, you just agreed with me. So, how does my definition, differ than yours? I never said the O's should have won 93, but they did. Its disrespectful, to just write that off as luck. The Orioles went into a gun fight, carrying a plastic knife, and won 93 games. I guess Buck forgot to rub his magic lantern, the other 69 games.

[Ruzious]

Basically, you just agreed with me. So, how does my definition, differ than yours? I never said the O's should have won 93, but they did. Its disrespectful, to just write that off as luck. The Orioles went into a gun fight, carrying a plastic knife, and won 93 games. I guess Buck forgot to rub his magic lantern, the other 69 games.

What does that have to do with your previous post?

The O's win 93, and experts say we may be a team looking to move some guys like Hardy or Jim Johnson and even Nick Markakis was mentioned. The same experts, said the Red Sox arent that far away. So a 90+ win team should be dismantled, but a 90+ loss team, isnt that far away? I thought winning games, would get us some respect. Guess not.

[Ruzious]

Apparently, I can't edit posts. Anyway DH, it's not disrespectful to realize the team needs to improve to get back to the playoffs. It'd be foolish to stay the same and think the team is going to have the same kind of... skill... they had last season.

[Dark Helmet]

What does that have to do with your previous post?

The fact, that they wrote the season off as luck, and should focus on 2014 and not 2013.

[DrungoHazewood]

Your looking to deep into what im saying. I understand it took a lit to go right, to get 93 wins. But, you dont think the heart this team showed all year, and the fight it showed in all the extra inning games, in which they went 17+ twice, and win both, doesnt dezerve respect? If not, I guess your standards are jyst higher than mine. A man with a prostetic leg enters the NY marathon, sure hes not expected to win, but he deserves respect just for the effort.

What does respect mean? That you should figure out what you think are the most likely outcomes for '13, then bump teams up or down X number of wins out of respect? Or that I shouldn't suggest that the Orioles plan for '13 as though they need a lot of additions to get back to 93 wins?

I loved the 2012 Orioles, and think they accomplished an amazing thing. But that has little to do with planning on continuing that success.

[Dark Helmet]

Apparently, I can't edit posts. Anyway DH, it's not disrespectful to realize the team needs to improve to get back to the playoffs. It'd be foolish to stay the same and think the team is going to have the same kind of... skill... they had last season.

I agree with that. I understand the O's need to improve to sustain what they did in 2012. Ive said that numerous times. But, what I heard, they basically said 2012 was a fluke, so dont even bother with 2013, your going to be a sub .500 team anyhow.

[Ruzious]

But DH, even you said the team shouldn't have won 93 games last season - so you know they need to improve the roster.

[DrungoHazewood]

The fact, that they wrote the season off as luck, and should focus on 2014 and not 2013.

If you read what Sheehan said, it was that they shouldn't approach '13 with the idea that a couple middling starters and a patch or two would be enough to put them right back at 93 wins. Which I agree wholeheartedly with. If they just fiddle a little around the margins and largely stand pat it's unlikely they approach last year's successes.

[DrungoHazewood]

But DH, even you said the team shouldn't have won 93 games last season - so you know they need to improve the roster.

Oh, absolutely. I think that if God replayed the 2012 season 1000 times the O's finish under .500 as often as they win 93 games. Their true talent going forward is more 81 wins than 93.

But 81 wins is within shouting distance of being good, so they're right in the sweet spot where a combination of judicious acquistions as well as improvements from guys like Machado could put them back in the playoffs.

Edit: I'm guessing your post was addressed to the other DH - not me.

[Dark Helmet]

What does respect mean? That you should figure out what you think are the most likely outcomes for '13, then bump teams up or down X number of wins out of respect? Or that I shouldn't suggest that the Orioles plan for '13 as though they need a lot of additions to get back to 93 wins?

I loved the 2012 Orioles, and think they accomplished an amazing thing. But that has little to do with planning on continuing that success.

Im not talking about what happens in 2013. 2012 is being thrown out, like it never happened, because stats show it never should have. Thats showing the players no respect. Should Buck have told his guys to stop playing hard, once they got to the 80-82 wins, that stats said they shouldve won? The respect should be shown for the effort, to get to the 93 wins. Yet, they wont get any, because it was luck.

[DrungoHazewood]

I agree with that. I understand the O's need to improve to sustain what they did in 2012. Ive said that numerous times. But, what I heard, they basically said 2012 was a fluke, so dont even bother with 2013, your going to be a sub .500 team anyhow.

The way I read it was the O's shouldn't approach '13 thinking they just need a minor tweak or two to keep rolling at 90+ wins.