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Arrieta and Tillman are almost unbearable to watch when they're not on their games

Frobby

By Frobby
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OrioleMagic79 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

OrioleMagic79

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Whatever promise he had, he's settling into what he's probably gonna be. A 5 inning, +5.00 ERA, 1.4-1.5 WHIP guy. They need not be seduced by Arrieta's stuff anymore.

Amen brother...wish they would have seen this earlier though. I got attacked early last July for suggesting we sell high on him...

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glenn__davis Hangout Grand Counsel

glenn__davis

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Arrieta and Tillman are not in the same conversation.. Rough start thus far for Chris, but he's had some success recently. A lot of it.

Correct. Been saying this all year. Tillman has earned a longer leash.

Arrieta should have been in Norfolk to start the year. Been saying that all year as well. He needs to show at least 2 months of consistent starts at Norfolk.

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Brooks The Great Major Leaguer

Brooks The Great

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Whatever promise he had, he's settling into what he's probably gonna be. A 5 inning, +5.00 ERA, 1.4-1.5 WHIP guy. They need not be seduced by Arrieta's stuff anymore.

He shouldn't be a starter. He's a bullpen pitcher, and has upside to be a closer. His control problems don't become a major issue until his 3rd-5th+ innings of work. I think he could be lights out as a reliever, and the Orioles would be best-served considering this as soon as possible.

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MachadOboutManny Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

MachadOboutManny

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Amen brother...wish they would have seen this earlier though. I got attacked early last July for suggesting we sell high on him...

You will be attacked any time you suggest trading an Oriole. Well, almost no matter what your opinion is, someone here is ready to disagree with you and do so passionately.

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OrioleMagic79 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

OrioleMagic79

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Arrieta and Tillman are not in the same conversation.. Rough start thus far for Chris, but he's had some success recently. A lot of it.

I am looking at it with my personal evaluation. I see a guy who plays well for stretches and then completely regresses for long stretches. The guys who really do well for years on end in this league never seem to regress that far back once they show progress. Guys like Daniel Cabrera, Rodrigo Lopez, even Arrieta have shown these same patterns...

I don't like waiting until a guy has proven to everyone that he isn't going to make it, so I try to look for trends/patterns that suggest he'll always have ups and downs, and then trade him before everyone else can see it too. That way he still has value...Tillman needs to be traded as soon as he looks good again, but the problem is now he is getting too old to get someone to believe that "they can fix him." This is the year that people will look at for him and decide if he has any value for the future. Once you hit 25, people don't want to see big regression, they want to see steady improvement with only little lapses here and there...

I may be wrong on Tillman, but just like the other guys I've mentioned, I think he's fool's gold...

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MachadOboutManny Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

MachadOboutManny

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I am looking at it with my personal evaluation. I see a guy who plays well for stretches and then completely regresses for long stretches. The guys who really do well for years on end in this league never seem to regress that far back once they show progress. Guys like Daniel Cabrera, Rodrigo Lopez, even Arrieta have shown these same patterns...

I don't like waiting until a guy has proven to everyone that he isn't going to make it, so I try to look for trends/patterns that suggest he'll always have ups and downs, and then trade him before everyone else can see it too. That way he still has value...Tillman needs to be traded as soon as he looks good again, but the problem is now he is getting too old to get someone to believe that "they can fix him." This is the year that people will look at for him and decide if he has any value for the future. Once you hit 25, people don't want to see big regression, they want to see steady improvement with only little lapses here and there...

I may be wrong on Tillman, but just like the other guys I've mentioned, I think he's fool's gold...

Agreed on all counts. We cant trade Tillman quickly enough for my liking. We've already waited too long.

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OrioleMagic79 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

OrioleMagic79

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You will be attacked any time you suggest trading an Oriole. Well, almost no matter what your opinion is, someone here is ready to disagree with you and do so passionately.

Fair enough. That makes sense, didn't really think about it that way before. Gotta keep in mind where I am posting...with a bunch of guys just as nuts about this team as me :) Thanks for the perspective...

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MachadOboutManny Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

MachadOboutManny

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Fair enough. That makes sense, didn't really think about it that way before. Gotta keep in mind where I am posting...with a bunch of guys just as nuts about this team as me :) Thanks for the perspective...

Every Orioles player has big fans of his posting here. Every Orioles prospect has big fans posting here. No one thinks nearly as highly of, say, Johnathan Schoop, as the good folks of the OH. I would have traded him already too. I would have tried to packaged Tillman/Schoop for J Upton or E Hosmer this winter. Those opinions were not popular and, as I hope we all do, I root for the Os, not my opinions.

I even had people who were genuinely upset when I said the Nats offseason was dreadful. People like to disagree. I was a bit surprised by that, but I love a good baseball discussion and there is no better place than the OH to find that.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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I am looking at it with my personal evaluation. I see a guy who plays well for stretches and then completely regresses for long stretches. The guys who really do well for years on end in this league never seem to regress that far back once they show progress. Guys like Daniel Cabrera, Rodrigo Lopez, even Arrieta have shown these same patterns...

.

What is Rodrigo Lopez doing in this conversation? He was in the top 10 in ERA twice, won 15, 15 and 14 games for this team, and had a winning record as an Oriole during a stretch when the team was way undetr .500. I'm not saying he was a great pitcher, but he did way more with his limited talent than Cabrera or Arrieta ever did.

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MachadOboutManny Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

MachadOboutManny

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What is Rodrigo Lopez doing in this conversation? He was in the top 10 in ERA twice, won 15, 15 and 14 games for this team, and had a winning record as an Oriole during a stretch when the team was way undetr .500. I'm not saying he was a great pitcher, but he did way more with his limited talent than Cabrera or Arrieta ever did.

Overachiever vs Underachiever

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SteveO Veteran All-Star

SteveO

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Tillman should have a longer leash. His performance last season alone was better than anything we have seen from Jake IMO. Tillman deserves the opportunity to right the ship based on that.

Honestly maybe Jake is better suited to be a reliever. His stuff if here were consistent is good enough to be a SP but you could say that about many good relievers.

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Lester Freamon Major Leaguer

Lester Freamon

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They had him as reliever last year to pretty good success. The problem is, all these guys, Matusz, Hunter, McFarland and Jake SHOULD be starters. The Orioles need dependable starters. NOT

MORE RELIEVERS.

Actually, I kinda remember Jake being just as frustrating in the bullpen late last season as well...

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SteveO Veteran All-Star

SteveO

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They had him as reliever last year to pretty good success. The problem is, all these guys, Matusz, Hunter, McFarland and Jake SHOULD be starters. The Orioles need dependable starters. NOT

MORE RELIEVERS.

Trying to fit a round peg in a square hole does not fix that problem though Roy.

McFarland just got here so not going to lump him with Jake, Matusz and Hunter.

Hunter and Arrieta strike me as guys who should be relievers. Neither has shown the ability to consistently produce as starters. Matusz I might like to see one more time as a starter before pegging him as a reliever also.

We can all want Jake, Brian, Tommy etc to be starters but wishing it does not make it so, on the field results do

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