Is Jones overrated Defensively?

[DrungoHazewood]

Yeah, I don't think switching Mclouth and Jones nets us much, if anything at all. Just doesn't make sense. I'd prefer Jones in RF ultimately (maybe as soon as next year for me), but this is just something we're going to be dealing with.

As much as UZR hates Adam Jones in center, it hates McLouth more. And Nate doesn't even have the UZR hates OPACY excuse.

[russ snyder]

I am also in the worried camp. Jones is not getting a good jump on the balls in front of him, and the balls hitting off of the heel of his glove remind me of the Carlos Lopez era circa 1978. I agree with a few others that he might need a break from playing center for a game or two. I'd let Dickerson play center during this series while Jones DH's. While Jones is going to be the Orioles center fielder for the next for or five years, it's hard to ignore how much of a hazard that he's been lately.

[El Gordo]

You'd be wrong as usual. But besides the usual stupid remarks, what do you actually disagree with from that post?

A ball that an OF barely gets to is an OZ play. By definition that is a ball less than 50% of OF get to. The triple was a triple and not an error, because most OF wouldn't be expected to catch it. Jones slightly over ran it, and had to reach around behind himself to catch it. It was very similar to the play he didn't make in NY.

[El Gordo]

It's not apparent to me that Jones is above average, nor that his difficulties are in holding onto balls that other MLB CFers wouldn't get to. If anything he's below average in first-step quickness and when he was younger he was faster and more able to make up for that weakness.

I don't think the preponderance of either objective or subjective evidence points to him being a good CFer any more. The debate is really "is he good enough with the bat to justify having his glove in center?"

I agree with this.. In the best of all possible worlds I would have him in RF. But I am not sold on McLouth in CF. He wasn't very good there in PIT when he was younger. He is good in LF.

[El Gordo]

Oh, we are going to throw defensive stats out there instead of just discussing what we saw? So, you're saying most outfielders wouldn't have gotten to the ball or that most outfielders would have had the ball go off the glove like it did for Jones? Can we stay in the real world on this one?

I think that most out fielders would not have gotten to that ball, and those that did would have had trouble catching it. Some would, some wouldn't. I have seen plenty of OF much better than Jones, have balls hit the heal of their gloves on plays where they were extended like that.

[LookinUp]

I really get the idea you didn't play the OF very much.

Apparently RZNJ did play outfield, and I certainly did a whole lot. I got the yips from the infield. Sent an umpire to the hospital in between innings because of an errant throw. But I digress...

Every outfielder who plays every day will have many chances where he needs to make a catch with full extension. For me, that's when my effort really had to expand. Not just in running to the ball, but in the last second before you catch the ball. You have to gather yourself. That means body control, eye control, whatever. AJ isn't doing that, and that particular part of the how to play outfield is not related to his first step.

[El Gordo]

On one hand, you say Jones slightly over ran the ball. On the other you say he's extended. Jones is not at full speed when he attempts the catch. He's there. The only thing that makes it difficult is his proximity to the wall. This is the second play like it where I think he starts to look for the wall before he looks the ball into the glove. I think we have different opinions of what "extended" means. He obviously wasn't totally extended because 1) he was slowing down because of the wall, and 2) even you say he slightly overran the ball.

Give it a rest. I disagree with you and you are not chaging my mind. Over ran, took a bad route, he wasn't in position to catch the ball because he just barely got there. And he nearly knocked himself out running into the wall. If he makes that catch it's a web gem. His problem isn't an inability to catch the ball, it's an inability to get himself in position to catch the ball. Don't bother to respond to this because I'm putting you back on ignore. Your pissing contests give me a headache.

[jabba72]

Those who expect perfection will always find failure.

IMO, Adam Jones is an well-above average CF'er who, of late ?appears? to be having some difficulties defensively. I say he ?appears? to be having problems because there are some many variables involved. Others have noted this and the "near misses" that result. If a certain batted ball may be uncatchable for many CF'ers, but the really good players, like Jones, seem to get a quicker jump and use speed to make those fly balls look catchable, even if they don't make the catch. Also, every player has their good and bad moments, but unless we are actually watching the game when those bad moments happen, we usually see only a player's good moments highlighted.

Jones has been flat out terrible chasing flyballs this year. There are at least 5 that bounced off his glove.

[mark_beckens]

Jones is showing almost zero range.

That's total BS!

If he had zero range, he wouldn't have gotten close to the ball in Left center last night, he was playing him in right center!

[Why Not?]

If for what ever reason he did move to left, which he won't, wouldn't they just switch him with Mclouth?

If they made the move today, I assume that is what would be done. But, as others have said here, I don't think that switch is a net positive. Until we develop/acquire a very good defensive CF, Jones is going to be the guy.

That's something the team might look to do, but it's probably way down the to-do list.

[El Gordo]

Apparently RZNJ did play outfield, and I certainly did a whole lot. I got the yips from the infield. Sent an umpire to the hospital in between innings because of an errant throw. But I digress...

Every outfielder who plays every day will have many chances where he needs to make a catch with full extension. For me, that's when my effort really had to expand. Not just in running to the ball, but in the last second before you catch the ball. You have to gather yourself. That means body control, eye control, whatever. AJ isn't doing that, and that particular part of the how to play outfield is not related to his first step.

Sure it is. That good first step gives you the time when you get there to:"gather yourself. That means body control, eye control, whatever" By just getting there at the same time as the ball he doesn't have that time.

[jabba72]

That's total BS!

If he had zero range, he wouldn't have gotten close to the ball in Left center last night, he was playing him in right center!

Have to disagree. Jones to me, has looked very slow chasing after flyballs this year.

[jabba72]

If they made the move today, I assume that is what would be done. But, as others have said here, I don't think that switch is a net positive. Until we develop/acquire a very good defensive CF, Jones is going to be the guy.

That's something the team might look to do, but it's probably way down the to-do list.

It might be way down the list, but by the end of the season it may be at the top of the list, along with what to do with the Rotation. You cant have a guy as bad as Jones in Center this year and expect to do anything but lose.

[CA-ORIOLE]

El Gordo won't see this cause I'm on ignore, hopefully. But according to El Gordo, if you just barely get to the ball in time, it means you didn't get a good jump. Apparently it's impossible to get a good jump and still just barely get there in time to make the catch. Good jump, bad jump, you gotta catch the ball when you get too it. It wasn't an easy catch. You still have to catch it. You miss one occasionally? No big deal. You miss 2 or 3 within a few weeks? Big deal.

Yep. It's not that hard to understand.

[bannanawho]

A story going around my work today is that Jones has an endorsement deal with Bazooka and gets paid on plays where he is photographed blowing a bubble. Does anyone know anything about this? Thinking back to when I played, I can't conceive of doing anything that would take away from my concentration while in the midst of executing a play. I am an Adam Jones fan, but I just don't like the bubble thing. If it's true that he gets paid for it, and if it's taking away from his concentration, he needs to be traded.