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Team era when Wieters is not behind the plate is under 3.00


joedogg9999

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I am sorry but since when does the catcher have any control of where the ball is actually pitched and how much the ball moves? You can complain all day about if a catcher calls for a fastball on the outside corner at the knees,but it isn't the catchers fault when a pitcher misses his spot and ends up throwing a meatball down the middle instead.

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I am sorry but since when does the catcher have any control of where the ball is actually pitched and how much the ball moves? You can complain all day about if a catcher calls for a fastball on the outside corner at the knees,but it isn't the catchers fault when a pitcher misses his spot and ends up throwing a meatball down the middle instead.

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You could watch this game and watch the game against Detroit and after two innings see the difference. It was not the catcher it was the location of the pitch. The game against Detroit Kevin was at the knees all game and when he missed he was low. The first two starts he was up most of the game at around the belt and got hit hard. Today he was mid thigh range and they hit a few hard balls but also some flares. At times when you just put the bat on the ball it depends on location, if you are at the knees these are rollers to the infielders at the thigh level balls in between the infielder and outfielder and can serve balls out there and up at the belt you are getting whiplash. You could have called the exact same game if you wanted to as against Detroit and the results would be no different because the ball was a thigh level and not knee level.

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Wieters OPS+ for his career is as follows:

96,90,110,107,91

So he's been below average in 3/5 years so far, and a bit above average in 2/5 years. For reference sake, his best year so far isn't even that good. McLouth put up a 111 OPS+ last year with us, so really even his best year was pretty average.

The question is, do you think he can improve offensively? Because if not he most likely isn't worth the salary he is going to demand. If he doesn't improve offensively I'd try to trade him for a TOR starter and sign Brian McCann.

Brian McCann is 29, going on 30, and missed the first month of this season. Signing a soon to be 30 year old catcher, when you've got one under you control for several more seasons is completely asinine.

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I simply do not understand the growing, unabashed disdain for Matt Wieters, as if everything that is wrong with this team is his fault. Bashing Kevin Gregg, Garrett Atkins, heck even Andy MacPhail, I could understand that. I don't pretend to be satisfied with Wieters offensively based both on current production and where I'd thought he would be, but this new found disdain for him is completely baffling. I simply do not get it.

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I simply do not understand the growing, unabashed disdain for Matt Wieters, as if everything that is wrong with this team is his fault. Bashing Kevin Gregg, Garrett Atkins, heck even Andy MacPhail, I could understand that. I don't pretend to be satisfied with Wieters offensively based both on current production and where I'd thought he would be, but this new found disdain for him is completely baffling. I simply do not get it.

Ehh, I don't find it any less balanced than the inane "Wieters is valuable because he calls a great game and handles the pitching staff" nonsense or the almost equally inane "Buck and the pitchers think Wieters calls a great game" droll that we listen to on a regular basis?

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I simply do not understand the growing, unabashed disdain for Matt Wieters, as if everything that is wrong with this team is his fault. Bashing Kevin Gregg, Garrett Atkins, heck even Andy MacPhail, I could understand that. I don't pretend to be satisfied with Wieters offensively based both on current production and where I'd thought he would be, but this new found disdain for him is completely baffling. I simply do not get it.

I think a lot of this is really more a product of people needing a whipping boy when the team loses.

Ehh, I don't find it any less balanced than the inane "Wieters is valuable because he calls a great game and handles the pitching staff" nonsense or the almost equally inane "Buck and the pitchers think Wieters calls a great game" droll that we listen to on a regular basis?

I have to agree. I want to temper that with while agree with some of what is being said here in the thread, the reckless way it's being said is silly.

This has been rehashed ad nauseum on the board and good catchers aren't lying around for us to just snatch up. Would I like to have Wieters call a better game? Yes. I think he will get better. The framing issue is not all what it's cracked up to be. I put little stock in it.

As far as his value, that's a completely different ball of wax. I think there is still time to assess the situation but I lean more to the side that unless it's a team friendly deal we should probably let him walk after arbitration. I just don't see Boras making it easy on us. I'm willing to have my mind changed though.

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I think a lot of this is really more a product of people needing a whipping boy when the team loses.

I have to agree. I want to temper that with while agree with some of what is being said here in the thread, the reckless way it's being said is silly.

This has been rehashed ad nauseum on the board and good catchers aren't lying around for us to just snatch up. Would I like to have Wieters call a better game? Yes. I think he will get better. The framing issue is not all what it's cracked up to be. I put little stock in it.

As far as his value, that's a completely different ball of wax. I think there is still time to assess the situation but I lean more to the side that unless it's a team friendly deal we should probably let him walk after arbitration. I just don't see Boras making it easy on us. I'm willing to have my mind changed though.

I like Wieters. He's been very a valuable player. I am leery about extending him based on cost/projected future value and injury concerns. Shutting down a running game is huge and I believe he's been and above average defensive catcher. Anecdotally, I don't think he frames pitches very well. I think there are at least 2 studies that indicate this. He does do many/most other things well imo. I'm not sure how much of a difference pitch framing makes, but I suspect it almost certainly makes some difference.

As far as pitch calling and/or pitcher handling I'm not sure how anyone can disprove he's good or bad at it, but I have no reason to think he's particularly proficient or even above average at it (an opinion that's often espoused on here). Basing that belief off Buck's and the pitcher's comments seems fairly ridiculous. Do any managers/pitchers criticize their catcher for this?

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I like Wieters. He's been very a valuable player. I am leery about extending him based on cost/projected future value and injury concerns. Shutting down a running game is huge and I believe he's been and above average defensive catcher. Anecdotally, I don't think he frames pitches very well. I think there are at least 2 studies that indicate this. He does do many/most other things well imo. I'm not sure how much of a difference pitch framing makes, but I suspect it almost certainly makes some difference.
I should clarify. I meant the statistic that's out there that makes Molina(is it Molina?) valuable for his pitch framing though he actually plays in only half there games or whatever it is. I'm sure there is some value as well, but I put more value in his ability to control the running game.

As far as pitch calling and/or pitcher handling I'm not sure how anyone can disprove he's good or bad at it, but I have no reason to think he's particularly proficient or even above average at it (an opinion that's often espoused on here). Basing that belief off Buck's and the pitcher's comments seems fairly ridiculous. Do any managers/pitchers criticize their catcher for this?

I can't recall one.

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I have no idea whether Wieters calls a good game or not, or handles pitchers well or not. Neither does anyone else here. There are no credible metrics for that.He certainly controls the running game well and blocks pitches well. But I do know that Buck is a smart baseball guy, smarter than any one here, and if he thinks Wieters is a good defensive catcher I trust his judgment.

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I have no idea whether Wieters calls a good game or not, or handles pitchers well or not. Neither does anyone else here. There are no credible metrics for that.He certainly controls the running game well and blocks pitches well. But I do know that Buck is a smart baseball guy, smarter than any one here, and if he thinks Wieters is a good defensive catcher I trust his judgment.

I agree with this. I am more concerned about his bat. According to his age, he should have been getting better offensively these past few years. Instead he's gotten progressively worse.

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I have no idea whether Wieters calls a good game or not, or handles pitchers well or not. Neither does anyone else here. There are no credible metrics for that.He certainly controls the running game well and blocks pitches well. But I do know that Buck is a smart baseball guy, smarter than any one here, and if he thinks Wieters is a good defensive catcher I trust his judgment.

He routinely calls out Nick and Jones as elite/gold glove defenders also. You trust his judgement on that one or is he just blowing us all a little smoke?

Buck isn't just a smart baseball manager, he's a smart manager. He does what he needs to do.

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