Team era when Wieters is not behind the plate is under 3.00

[luismatos4prez]

OK, "Mr played the game", Provide me 5 recent examples of ML managers or pitchers that have criticized their catcher's pitch calling in public.

That's not what this is about. It's not about what Buck says in press conferences.

If he had a problem with Wieters' catching, he would try to correct it. If Wieters' didn't correct the problem, they'd find someone else to catch for the Orioles.

[El Gordo]

OK, "Mr played the game", Provide me 5 recent examples of ML managers or pitchers that have criticized their catcher's pitch calling in public.

What has that got to do with whether they think their catcher is competent or not. Few ML managers throw any player under the bus if they are smart. And few ML managers put up with a bad catcher for 4 years if they are smart. If they stick with the catcher it's because they think he is their best option

[Il BuonO]

Why? Because all of us aren't Buck? I have been around baseball in one form or another for most of my life and worked with HS pitchers and catchers this past season. Wieters can improve in his pitch calling. He is excellent in controlling the running game, but the way he calls pitches and the sequences in which he calls them needs work. It will come with time, but right now he's not using all four quadrants of the plate to the pitchers advantage and that falls on him.

Here's what I originally wrote. It's not way out there. If you've taken the timne to read what else I've read instead of going off half cocked like you usually do, you'll also see I take others to task here and in other threads for not fully appreciating Wieters. Doesn't mean he can't be criticized and it doesn't mean he can't improve.

You don't have Buck's resume and you don't have his track records. I don't care what you claim you have done. I don't see Buck even bothering to post here, and I wouldn't expect him too. Anyone who wants to waste his time here is pretty much a dilettante IMO. To put yourself in the same equation as him is a joke. if Buck, who knows 10 times more about baseball than you do(do you seriously want to contest that?) didn't think Wieters should be his catcher, he wouldn't be.

Never claimed to have his resume. And are you saying others here like Stotle or TonyOH or SoxHotCorner have no basis for their opinion? Or anyone else for that matter. I don't need to defend what I done to disagree with you.

[jjnono]

OK, "Mr played the game", Provide me 5 recent examples of ML managers or pitchers that have criticized their catcher's pitch calling in public.

First, I didn't mean in public, i.e., to the press. Second, I've played at the college level, which grants me no more authority than anyone else on this board. My coach called the pitches, but gave latitude to the P/C to change it. Poor decisions were criticized in the dugout in no uncertain terms. Part of learning. I played second base.

[Il BuonO]

That's not what this is about. It's not about what Buck says in press conferences.

If he had a problem with Wieters' catching, he would try to correct it. If Wieters' didn't correct the problem, they'd find someone else to catch for the Orioles.

Unless what he's telling Matt to call is part of his and Adair's agenda of establishing the FB, which he's already come out and said. I'm talking about pitch calling.

I don't think any of us thinks there is a major problem with Wieters as a catcher.

[CA-ORIOLE]

That's not what this is about. It's not about what Buck says in press conferences.

If he had a problem with Wieters' catching, he would try to correct it. If Wieters' didn't correct the problem, they'd find someone else to catch for the Orioles.

It is what it's about. People have cited Buck's and the pitcher's comments about Wieter's pitch calling as evidence that he is good at it. These comments are essentially worthless.

We don't really know what Buck thinks about Wieter's pitch calling, and even if he thought it was below average that doesn't mean he would need to get another catcher as there are plenty of things that Wieter's does well and we have no other real options anyways.

[jjnono]

You don't have Buck's resume and you don't have his track records. I don't care what you claim you have done. I don't see Buck even bothering to post here, and I wouldn't expect him too. Anyone who wants to waste his time here is pretty much a dilettante IMO. To put yourself in the same equation as him is a joke. if Buck, who knows 10 times more about baseball than you do(do you seriously want to contest that?) didn't think Wieters should be his catcher, he wouldn't be.

Stricken to the core.

[Why_Knott?]

Oh my god that's the most delusional thing I've ever read. I've read conspiracy theories about lizard people that were more grounded in fact.

You've completely ignored the low, low success rates of pitching prospects who look good in the minors.

You've completely ignored that Strop, Gonzalez, and Hammel had career years with Wieters last year.

There's just one pitching coach for the entire minor leagues? According to whom? Kennie Steenstra, Justin Lord, Mike Griffin, etc. are the same person now?

You've passed several statements off as facts with no evidence. They carried it over for a brief time in the majors? Prove it. Wieters calls more fastballs early than others? Prove it. The backup catchers have outperformed Wieters defensively throughout his career? Prove it. You can't just say things like that and assume they'll be accepted as facts.

I need to get off the internet for a while. Reading this delusional garbage is making me stupider.

I watched a game this year which started off with 16 fastballs. That's just unacceptable. Establishing a fastball does not equal abandoning your arsenal. I was very impressed by Chris Snyder this year, his body language showed me he was catering to a young pitcher last week as well. I can't believe we sent him down because he is far better than Teagarden...

With that said Matt has called awful games this year. I don't need pitch fx to prove that becaus I've watched every inning. He lives with the fastball and does not give a target. When it comes to gausman I don't think teams should be hammering his verlander type stuff.

[CA-ORIOLE]

First, I didn't mean in public, i.e., to the press. .

Ok, but that was clearly the context that I was talking about. It's what people often cite as evidence and what I was refuting.

Second, I've played at the college level, which grants me no more authority than anyone else on this board.

That's fine. I respect that and it certainly gives you some level of expertise imo. I'm receptive to input and analysis from guys who have played baseball at the upper levels. I just don't care for the "you obviously never played the game" strawman.

[El Gordo]

Here's what I originally wrote. It's not way out there. If you've taken the timne to read what else I've read instead of going off half cocked like you usually do, you'll also see I take others to task here and in other threads for not fully appreciating Wieters. Doesn't mean he can't be criticized and it doesn't mean he can't improve.

Never claimed to have his resume. And are you saying others here like Stotle or TonyOH or SoxHotCorner have no basis for their opinion? Or anyone else for that matter. I don't need to defend what I done to disagree with you.

No, I am saying their resume in comparison to Buck's pretty much makes them dilettantes IMO. People who actually play the game don't waste their time on message boards. I do, precisely because I don't play the game, but wish I could. I expect that's the same for most people who waste their time here.

[CA-ORIOLE]

What has that got to do with whether they think their catcher is competent or not. Few ML managers throw any player under the bus if they are smart. And few ML managers put up with a bad catcher for 4 years if they are smart. If they stick with the catcher it's because they think he is their best option

Nobody is saying he's "bad" or "incompetent". You're making crap up again.

[Il BuonO]

No, I am saying their resume in comparison to Buck's pretty much makes them dilettantes IMO. People who actually play the game don't waste their time on message boards. I do, precisely because I don't play the game, but wish I could. I expect that's the same for most people who waste their time here.

So, there's a big difference between this and say Twitter? A number of players are all over that, but I would chalk that up to having a short attention span.

[Why_Knott?]

I'd venture to bet that ca oriole and the man el gordo have never strapped on cleats in their delicate lives after reading this thread!

[crissfan172]

I watched a game this year which started off with 16 fastballs. That's just unacceptable. Establishing a fastball does not equal abandoning your arsenal. I was very impressed by Chris Snyder this year, his body language showed me he was catering to a young pitcher last week as well. I can't believe we sent him down because he is far better than Teagarden...

With that said Matt has called awful games this year. I don't need pitch fx to prove that becaus I've watched every inning. He lives with the fastball and does not give a target. When it comes to gausman I don't think teams should be hammering his verlander type stuff.

There's nothing wrong with throwing all fastballs in the 1st inning if you're getting outs. Actually...that would be the smart thing to do.

I'm not sure why you're so upset that Buck replaced Snyder with Teagarden. Teagarden's done nothing to make anybody think that he can't call a good game. Plus...we're talking about a guy that plays once a week. The move's really not even worth a second thought.

Calling Gausman's stuff similar to Verlander's is laughable. Gausman's slider is still developing, and his fastball has nowhere near the movement that Verlander's does. Most importantly, Gausman's command is not where it needs to be yet.

[Il BuonO]

Nobody is saying he's "bad" or "incompetent". You're making crap up again.

Oh, yes you did! I have the post right here.

Wait, was that me? No, not me either.

Yeah, making crap up.