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Something needs to be done about Wieters


Pedro Cerrano

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Pretty sure the name 7 comment was in response to the guy who said:

Also, Wieters has been better than both Rosario and Perez the past two seasons. Additionally, Perez's offensive slash line is even worse than Wieters's this year, so I'm not sure how that would be an improvement. I just don't understand the "anybody else" calls, as if somehow that would help.

Then you should address that to the person who said that. I started a thread against someone who apparently on this site is completely immune from ANY criticism. And why? Because he's good at throwing out base-stealers. The main thesis of my OP was simply that Wieters should be moved down in the order, particularly against RHP. If you want to leave him behind Davis when a lefty is on the mound, fine, but I also think Buck should work his off days around benching him against lefties.

In response, I get jumped on (whatever), the thread gets one-starred (again, whatever) and my general assumption coming into this thread remains true: you simply aren't allowed to talk bad about Precious Matt for fear of the wrath of the fanboys.

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No, the fan boys on this site just amuse me. I knew KNEW I'd get attacked once I started this thread. All I want to do is move him down in the order, especially against right handed pitchers, and now suddenly I have to go off and name a bunch of catchers I'd rather have and if I can get to seven I win? Awesome.

Not that it matters, but here are the catchers I'd definitely take over Wieters for the rest of the season:

-Buster Posey

-Yadier Molina

-Joe Mauer

-Carlos Santana

-Brian McCann

and here are two that I'd consider:

-Wilin Rosario

-Salvador Perez

Well, this "fanboy", was glad to see you're right on schedule with your semi-annual "Matt Wieters isn't actually Jesus" thread. In other news, the sky is blue.

My post wasn't even directed at you, it was directed at someone who said they had more faith in Ryan Flaherty and would trade Wieters for "just about anyone". That's idiotic, and should be backed up by something other than "he dropped two fly balls this week". I actually have no problem moving him down a peg in the order once Betemit is back (against righties).

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Well, this "fanboy", was glad to see you're right on schedule with your semi-annual "Matt Wieters isn't actually Jesus" thread. In other news, the sky is blue.

My post wasn't even directed at you, it was directed at someone who said they had more faith in Ryan Flaherty and would trade Wieters for "just about anyone". That's idiotic, and should be backed up by something other than "he dropped two fly balls this week". I actually have no problem moving him down a peg in the order once Betemit is back (against righties).

So you agree with the basic premise of my thread AND take a shot at me in the same post by calling it a "semi-annual "Matt Wieters isn't actually Jesus" thread."

Got it.

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I am ok with Wieters. At this point I think its fair to say he is a disappointment given his hype. He is 27 in his 5th full season and probably is what he is going to be an average hitter with some power and a plus defender. Of course he might get better but I wouldn't bet on it. The problem is going to be keeping him here. I just wonder what he is going to want in $$$. Clearly he is someone I would sign at the right price but I am not sure the right price is going to be enough.

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I stated in another thread I'd offer him 5/55-58 right now take it or leave it. If he says no and wants to play hard-ball I look to move him this offseason.

Also, please refrain from calling Matt a "disappointment" that sort of thing will leave you with a red "A" on your chest around here.

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So you agree with the basic premise of my thread AND take a shot at me in the same post by calling it a "semi-annual "Matt Wieters isn't actually Jesus" thread."

Got it.

No, I just get sick of your schtick where you proclaim to be the only person who has the balls to criticize Wieters, when in reality, it happens pretty regularly. Sometimes justly, often times (and I'm not saying by you) without an appreciation for what he is.

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No, I just get sick of your schtick where you proclaim to be the only person who has the balls to criticize Wieters, when in reality, it happens pretty regularly. Sometimes justly, often times (and I'm not saying by you) without an appreciation for what he is.

Well I admittedly don't read/post here as much as I used to. If I had seen a bunch of "move Wieters down in the order" threads I wouldn't have started this one.

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So you agree with the basic premise of my thread AND take a shot at me in the same post by calling it a "semi-annual "Matt Wieters isn't actually Jesus" thread."

Got it.

Well, to be fair, it is your shtick. We get this thread every year, and every year Wieters ends up one of the most valuable catchers in baseball. He's not going to hit like. Mauer with power, we all know this. He's still extremely valuable even though you refuse to let yourself get past his post draft hype. Most of us have moved on, and don't obsess over the fact he's not going to be a . 900 OPS catcher. Arrencibia is the only catcher with more HR than Wieters since 2011 so he does have power relative to the position.

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Also, can people stop talking about his "power" like it's some asset? He's slugging .420! Which wouldn't be awful except, oh yea, his OBP is under .300.

Wieters is in a slump, but he's still basically a league-average offensive catcher (OPS+ of 92, median is 94, min 100 PAs).

What gets me is that there's no middle ground. You say this thread was a simple little innocent request to move him down in the order, but you title the thread "Something needs to be done about Wieters", and in a single sentence your initial post mentions that he's painful to watch, needs to give up switch hitting and be moved down in the order.

Your next post in the thread says he absolutely stinks against righties, and then you get all up in arms when people defend Wieters.

If you're going to get indignant and offended about fanboys rushing to Wieters' defense, you also need to acknowledge that the Wieters criticism is often over-the-top and barely connected to reality. Objectively he's an average or average+ offensive catcher with very good defense, yet seemingly every time he grounds out to second we're reminded that he failed to become Piazza with gold glove defense.

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Well, to be fair, it is your shtick. We get this thread every year, and every year Wieters ends up one of the most valuable catchers in baseball. He's not going to hit like. Mauer with power, we all know this. He's still extremely valuable even though you refuse to let yourself get past his post draft hype. Most of us have moved on, and don't obsess over the fact he's not going to be a . 900 OPS catcher. Arrencibia is the only catcher with more HR than Wieters since 2011 so he does have power relative to the position.

You clearly missed the point of the thread....at least from my perspective. Name me one ONE instance where I've criticized his defense or even said that he was a bad overall player.

Christ, again, ALL I WANT TO DO IS MOVE HIM DOWN IN THE ORDER BECAUSE HE SUCKS HITTING LEFTY. YOU SAID YOURSELF HE'S NOT MAUER WITH POWER.

Is that ok? Is it? Please? I promise, PROMISE that if I'm proven wrong I'll gladly admit it.

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Also, can people stop talking about his "power" like it's some asset? He's slugging .420! Which wouldn't be awful except, oh yea, his OBP is under .300.

Your problem is you are comparing him to other players overall. Compare him to catchers. Yeah he hasn't had the best season so far but he started slow last year too. And if you move him next year as you suggested who is going to catch? I like to see how you react when the new catcher is hitting under .200 without power.

Matt also catches more games than other catchers.

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Wieters is in a slump, but he's still basically a league-average offensive catcher (OPS+ of 92, median is 94, min 100 PAs).

What gets me is that there's no middle ground. You say this thread was a simple little innocent request to move him down in the order, but you title the thread "Something needs to be done about Wieters", and in a single sentence your initial post mentions that he's painful to watch, needs to give up switch hitting and be moved down in the order.

Your next post in the thread says he absolutely stinks against righties, and then you get all up in arms when people defend Wieters.

If you're going to get indignant and offended about fanboys rushing to Wieters' defense, you also need to acknowledge that the Wieters criticism is often over-the-top and barely connected to reality. Objectively he's an average or average+ offensive catcher with very good defense, yet seemingly every time he grounds out to second we're reminded that he failed to become Piazza with gold glove defense.

Do you believe Wieters should be moved down in the order against RHP, particularly when Betemit returns?

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Your problem is you are comparing him to other players overall. Compare him to catchers. Yeah he hasn't had the best season so far but he started slow last year too. And if you move him next year as you suggested who is going to catch? I like to see how you react when the new catcher is hitting under .200 without power.

Matt also catches more games than other catchers.

HOLY GOD, of course I'm comparing him to people other than catchers. I'm comparing him to the 8 other people in the O's lineup.

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