Youth does not hide failure

[brooksfrankjim]

Chris Davis says hello.

[SpinJr]

We cannot have the attitude of expecting a young pitcher to fail at first and then succeed. We should expect him to succeed immediately and hit the ground running. And if he should struggle at first well then he is a failure until proven otherwise.

To believe otherwise is just lying to yourself.

You know I can kinda get behind this. The O's have done an excellent job of changing the culture but still have some work to do on the pitching end of development. Gausman was rushed and it wasn't his fault he got the call. With him being rushed the expectation was he was going to take his lumps and getting knocked around was ok. I do think that puts guys in a postion to make excuses for their effort and I think Jake is the end result of that tainted culture. Our media has developed this culture/attitude as well regarding the pitching. It is depressing to see other organizations bring up polished young men from their minors who are ready to pitch at the ML level with no excuses for their results.

However, I think we're heading in the right direction so it shouldn't be too much longer when we have to bring pitchers up they will be in the proper position to succeed rather than make excuses.

[Tony-OH]

In Chris Tillman's first 12 major league starts he put up these numbers: 65 IP, 77 H, 24 BB, 39 K, 5.40 ERA

Cal Ripken had a .348 OPS on May 1st of his rookie year (62 PA) while playing third base after putting up .278 OPS in 40 PA during his September call up the year before.

Through his first 30 games in the big leagues, Nick Markakis put up a .198/.274/.326/.599 through 95 PA.

Clearly when prospects fail initially they will always fail. :rolleyestf:

[Aristotelian]

I think we should apply this to everything in life. If you kids do not bring home straight A's, do not offer them mere words of encouragement, but tell them they may want to start looking for a new family.

Thank you calm, for showing me the error of my way! Also, thank you for the perfection you bring as a poster here.

I'm not sure why you like baseball, but everything you post here is a complaint. Enjoy it. Life is way too short to consume yourself with things you have no control of.

The better analogy would be "If your three your old is not succeeding at kindergarden, he is a failure. If your kindergardener is not succeeding at high school he is a failure. It does not matter when your child fails, he is a failure. To believe otherwise is just lying to yourself."

[The Wedge]

Can you imagine how baseball in the mid 20th would have been different had the Yankees decided that Mickey Mantle's failure as a youth was enough of a barometer? That's a pretty infamous example of a wet behind the ears kid just flailing in the bigs when he first got there.

[weams]

I don't even understand what the original post was about, do you? If anything, it seems to say that we should expect all of the O's prospects to succeed immediately and if they don't you cast them aside and move on. But he can't mean that, can he? That's nonsense.

He said it. He meant it. It is.

[weams]

Can you imagine how baseball in the mid 20th would have been different had the Yankees decided that Mickey Mantle's failure as a youth was enough of a barometer? That's a pretty infamous example of a wet behind the ears kid just flailing in the bigs when he first got there.

Cal Ripken.

[Roll Tide]

If we were to grade starters on a pass fail system then age is nothing, but a number. The performance is the performance and your body of work is what it is. Everything that happened is documented statistically and on video. You cannot hide from your failures. All you can do is remain a failure or become a success story. Or conversely you can succeed from the start and maintain a level of production until retirement.

Most of our guys fail from season 1 and continue failing throughout their career. On some occasions we see failures start to show up in season 2 like Matusz and Bergesen. The point is failure is failure no matter when it happens.

Jake Arrieta for example failed when he came up. He was young so we gave him chances to figure it out. He never figured it out. But even so, in 2009 he failed as he did in the following seasons. He hurt the team in every season he failed.

It does not matter when pitchers fail. Kevin Gausman's failures as a starter in the MLB is just as damaging as any other failure no matter their age and experience. He is still a key contributor to the struggles of the rotation.

Did we bring him up to fail? To cut to the chase lets not sugarcoat it. Was he called up to fail? Or was he called up to help the Orioles win games? He was called up to succeed. Maybe a young guy like him goes and figures it out. Perhaps we shouldn't expect him to perform as well as a more experienced pitcher. But ineffectiveness knows no age.

We cannot have the attitude of expecting a young pitcher to fail at first and then succeed. We should expect him to succeed immediately and hit the ground running. And if he should struggle at first well then he is a failure until proven otherwise.

To believe otherwise is just lying to yourself.

Most pitchers don't come up and have instant success. The need a certain number of starts before the light comes on. Some never figure it out or are just not good enough to make it. I'm a firm believer that Jake has the stuff to succeed at the majors. Perhaps more as a reliever but in reality he is running out of time with the birds. Gausman wast ready and needs to perfect his breaking stuff. I don't blame the Os for trying it in a time of need but I'm surprised that Jurrjens only got 1 start, Johnson despite his success last year only got one look , and Britton is just now getting his turn. IMO all of these should've happened before rushing Gausman. At some point for him to make it he will need to be given a chance to figure it out. Hopefully with better control.

[weams]

In Chris Tillman's first 12 major league starts he put up these numbers: 65 IP, 77 H, 24 BB, 39 K, 5.40 ERA

Cal Ripken had a .348 OPS on May 1st of his rookie year (62 PA) while playing third base after putting up .278 OPS in 40 PA during his September call up the year before.

Through his first 30 games in the big leagues, Nick Markakis put up a .198/.274/.326/.599 through 95 PA.

Clearly when prospects fail initially they will always fail. :rolleyestf:

It seems like Domonic Brown finally blossomed and I assume KC is glad they stuck with Alex Gordon.

[SpinJr]

Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica

Identity theft isn't a joke Jim!

[weams]

Most pitchers don't come up and have instant success. The need a certain number of starts before the light comes on. Some never figure it out or are just not good enough to make it. I'm a firm believer that Jake has the stuff to succeed at the majors. Perhaps more as a reliever but in reality he is running out of time with the birds. Gausman wast ready and needs to perfect his breaking stuff. I don't blame the Os for trying it in a time of need but I'm surprised that Jurrjens only got 1 start, Johnson despite his success last year only got one look , and Britton is just now getting his turn. IMO all of these should've happened before rushing Gausman. At some point for him to make it he will need to be given a chance to figure it out. Hopefully with better control.

Steve Johnson has been injured all season. Clearly he would have been a quality fill in.

[The Wedge]

Cal Ripken.

There's a ton of stories of struggling future HoF'ers, but I chose Mantle as he's generally considered to be a baseball god, and the fact that the story actually involved him being sent down to the minors and being one lecture from his father away from quitting altogether.

[Roll Tide]

Steve Johnson has been injured all season. Clearly he would have been a quality fill in.

Good point Weams....my point is just that I thought the Os had other options. Considering his track record Jurrjens should've gotten a handful of starts in my opinion.

[EagleOriole]

It does not matter when pitchers fail. Kevin Gausman's failures as a starter in the MLB is just as damaging as any other failure no matter their age and experience. He is still a key contributor to the struggles of the rotation.

Utterly ridiculous. Seriously, no one will listen to your good points when you are making this point.

[calmunderfire]

I never said early failures ensures consistent failure. I said early failure is what it is. Failure.

There are guys who turn around their careers. Like Chris Tillman.

That does not mean guys like Gausman have not failed. He failed miserably and until he turns it around he will remain a MLB failure.

You can attribute inexperience somewhat to ineffectiveness.