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Chen and Gonzo should not be penciled in to 2014


FanSince88

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Gonzalez should definitely be slated for the bullpen next year. I think they can afford Chen in the rotation if they can get an innings-eater in the offseason.
I think Chen will be fine. Gonzo I fear is at the end of the line as an effective starter.
I guess I "fear" that, but I don't think it's necessarily fair to expect that or to give up on him. Looking at his game log, I count three really bad starts from him. All season.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/8437/gamelog

Yes, he does seem to be struggling lately, but also interesting to note is that of those three starts that took the team out of the game, only one came in his last four starts.

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I think what's troubling is the time of year that both of them are faltering. Tillman has pitched some huge games down the stretch where the BP let him down. We needed some big games from both Chen and Gonzalez and Buck has given them more rest, but it hasn't been there. That's frustrating.

Who's going to take Chen's place? Britton? And Steve Johnson for Gonzalez? Be careful what you wish for I guess. Gausman is the only person we have I could see in the rotation who isn't there right now and he will have to develop his slider some more. Again, without better options they are probably both there to start the season.

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I think what's troubling is the time of year that both of them are faltering. Tillman has pitched some huge games down the stretch where the BP let him down. We needed some big games from both Chen and Gonzalez and Buck has given them more rest, but it hasn't been there. That's frustrating.

Who's going to take Chen's place? Britton? And Steve Johnson for Gonzalez? Be careful what you wish for I guess. Gausman is the only person we have I could see in the rotation who isn't there right now and he will have to develop his slider some more. Again, without better options they are probably both there to start the season.

Don't forget the parade of warm bodies that will be auditioning.

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The only sure rotation spots i see next year are tillman and norris. If chen and gonzo are guaranteed rotation spots it basically means this org is fine and dandy with 3 rd and 4th place. They have been ghastly in the past month and i have no confidence in either one at this pt.

"Penciled in" doesn't mean they are set as starters; it means they are the tentative starters. In other words, penciling them in doesn't mean it's set in stone.

Chen has had a poor August, but Gonzalez has done quite well except for his last start (7 earned runs in 4 innings). Take away that one disaster, and his August ERA is 3.15, and his season ERA before that start was 3.77.

And yet, even after Chen's August and Gonazalez's last start, they have ERAs of 3.87 and 4.11. If our #4 and #5 starters have those ERAs, then we're looking pretty good, so yes, we should pencil them in as two of our five starters. The problem isn't their pitching, it's that they are two of our main three starters this season, not our #4 and #5. (And if Jim Johnson hadn't blown 9 saves, or Markakis, Wieters, and our varying DHs hadn't forgotten how to hit, it's unlikely we'd be having this conversation.)

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The excuse-making on this board for Chen is pathetic and outrageous. You guys do realize he'll end the year having pitched just over half a full MLB season this year, right? But it's somehow Bucks fault when he coughs up a lead in the 7th inning. Not so long ago, people expected starters to finish games or at least pitch into the 8th if they had decent stuff on any given night. The relievers were there for emergency RELIEF only, not to pamper some overpaid starter.

Why should we be hand-wringing over Chen's innings when he's barely even going to pitch half a season this year at the MLB level? I'm sorry but if you're that fragile that you flame out in August with 1/3 of a season's worth of work, maybe it's time for the organization to strongly consider putting you in the BP. Same goes for Gonzo, both him and Chen have had plenty of "rest" this season with their extended DL stints. We don't need starters that can't pitch competently ALL SIX MONTHS of the season (especially when they've each gotten about a month or two on the DL).

Let Gonzo and Chen duke it out next spring for the 5th starter role. To the victor go the "spoils;" to the loser goes TJ MacFarland's long reliever spot (and if you don't like that then don't let the door hit your butt on the way out). Norris can be #4 even though he's more of a #5. If this organization is SERIOUS about winning they will trade Markakis, Wieters, and whatever prospects it will take to land a true TOR or at least a solid #2-3 guy. Hopefully Gausman is able to round out the rotation as a #3 or so.

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The excuse-making on this board for Chen is pathetic and outrageous. You guys do realize he'll end the year having pitched just over half a full MLB season this year, right? But it's somehow Bucks fault when he coughs up a lead in the 7th inning. Not so long ago, people expected starters to finish games or at least pitch into the 8th if they had decent stuff on any given night. The relievers were there for emergency RELIEF only, not to pamper some overpaid starter.

Why should we be hand-wringing over Chen's innings when he's barely even going to pitch half a season this year at the MLB level. I'm sorry but if you're that fragile that you flame out in August with 1/3 of a season's worth of work, maybe it's time for the organization to strongly consider putting you in the BP. Same goes for Gonzo, both him and Chen have had plenty of "rest" this season with their extended DL stints. We don't need starters that can't pitch competently ALL SIX MONTHS of the season (especially when they've each gotten about a month or two on the DL).

Let Gonzo and Chen duke it out next spring for the 5th starter role. To the victor go the spoils; to the loser goes TJ MacFarland's long reliever spot (and if you don't like that then don't let the door hit you butt on the way out). Norris can be #4 even though he's more of a #5. If this organization is SERIOUS about winning they will trade Markakis, Wieters, and whatever prospects it will take to land a true TOR or at least a solid #2-3 guy. Hopefully Gausman is able to round out the rotation.

What are these excuses?

Chen had concerns about endurance last season and he was looking good this year until the injury. Heck, he was looking good after the injury. He hasn't been good recently but that doesn't mean you boot him from the rotation.

And what a joke? Trade Markakis and Wieters for a TOR? That makes sense. Lets trade our garbage for someone's gold.

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What are these excuses?

Chen had concerns about endurance last season and he was looking good this year until the injury. Heck, he was looking good after the injury. He hasn't been good recently but that doesn't mean you boot him from the rotation.

And what a joke? Trade Markakis and Wieters for a TOR? That makes sense. Lets trade our garbage for someone's gold.

The excuses are "waahaha, Buck left Chen in too long. Shame on Buck because Chen blew the game after 100 pitches." So lame. Do you think they ever said that about Bob Gibson's manager or any pitchers even 15-20 years ago? If Chen can't pitch and get outs into the 8th on a night where he has decent stuff, HE SHOULDN'T BE A FRICKIN STARTER!!!

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What are these excuses?

Chen had concerns about endurance last season and he was looking good this year until the injury. Heck, he was looking good after the injury. He hasn't been good recently but that doesn't mean you boot him from the rotation.

And what a joke? Trade Markakis and Wieters for a TOR? That makes sense. Lets trade our garbage for someone's gold.

I said trade Markakis, Wieters, and whatever prospects it will take, wise guy. That includes Golden Calf Bundy.

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The excuses are "waahaha, Buck left Chen in too long. Shame on Buck because Chen blew the game after 100 pitches." So lame. Do you think they ever said that about Bob Gibson's manager or any pitchers even 15-20 years ago? If Chen can't pitch and get outs into the 8th on a night where he has decent stuff, HE SHOULDN'T BE A FRICKIN STARTER!!!

If Chen shouldn't be a starter, than neither should Norris or Gausman, who you adore. You have terribly unstable arguments.

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The excuse-making on this board for Chen is pathetic and outrageous.

Actually, I think they are recognizing that he has a 3.87 ERA for the season, and you don't just drop someone pitching that well out of your top five because of one bad month. Do you really believe that Chen's 3.87 ERA for the year doesn't make him one of our top five starters? That would be pathetic and outrageous.

You guys do realize he'll end the year having pitched just over half a full MLB season this year, right?

That's an exaggeration. He's started 18 games, and will likely pitch about five more, or 23 total. If he didn't miss a start, he'd start 32. Few pitchers actually do that, but guess who started the most games for the Orioles last year? Yep, Chen, 32 games. Second were Hammel and Hunter, both with only 20 starts.

The simple arithmetic is that if he does start 23 games this season, he'll end the year pitching well over half a full MLB season this year. 72% is not "just over" half, and 23 would be more than any other Oriole pitcher last year.

But it's somehow Bucks fault when he coughs up a lead in the 7th inning. Not so long ago, people expected starters to finish games or at least pitch into the 8th if they had decent stuff on any given night. The relievers were there for emergency RELIEF only, not to pamper some overpaid starter.

You are living in a bygone era. There's a reason why 6 innings and 3 or less earned runs is a "quality start."

It is true that Chen has pitched poorly all season after the sixth inning. When you have a pitcher who consistently shuts down the opposition for six innings, you don't drop him from the rotation because of his problems in the 7th inning; you simply become quicker to bring in a reliever when he begins to falter. Remember, he's got that 3.87 ERA despite his struggles after the sixth inning.

Same goes for Gonzo, both him and Chen have had plenty of "rest" this season with their extended DL stints. We don't need starters that can't pitch competently ALL SIX MONTHS of the season (especially when they've each gotten about a month or two on the DL).

Are you still trying to judge Gonzo on his last start? You don't judge a season on one bad start. He's got a 4.11 ERA for the season, and other than that one bad start, a 3.15 ERA in August. So where are you getting the idea he can't pitch all six months? The irony is that Gonzo's worst month (excluding his last start) was April, when he was rested. Here are his monthly ERAs.

April: 4.60

May: 4.01

June: 2.88

July: 4.23

Aug: 3.15 before his last start (but 5.25 including it)

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