The Blame Game

[OFFNY]

I know it is a team game and all that ...

I agree.

Good post.

[Redskins Rick]

I agree.

Good post.

OFFNY,

Geeze, if only you had gone to more games, we would be a playoff team!

[Finisher]

Person responsible for not signing Koji. Single dumbest non signing in recent memory.

[Frobby]

I wasn't referring to that series. He did it back in May.

Fair enough. That was three appearances in a row, but not three games in a row.

But as to your point about how demoralizing that was, the O's went on to play very good baseball for 8 weeks after that happened. They were only 2 games over .500 after the third blown save but were 14 games over by July 22. So it didn't really seem to demoaralize them to the point where it affected their overall play.

[AdamK]

I agree.

Good post.

Can't help but feeling like his impact had a negative effect that the rest of the guys couldn't continue to overcome. Maybe put that on the team as a whole for not being able to overcome having victory snatched away time and time again, but when you hand the ball to your best guy over and over and he looks like an imposter on the mound - its hard to spread the blame out on the guys who put the team into position for the wins in the first place.

[OFFNY]

Can't help but feeling like his impact had a negative effect that the rest of the guys couldn't continue to overcome. Maybe put that on the team as a whole for not being able to overcome having victory snatched away time and time again, but when you hand the ball to your best guy over and over and he looks like an imposter on the mound - its hard to spread the blame out on the guys who put the team into position for the wins in the first place.

Good.

Then you ought to go back and edit your previous post to omit the first line, since you don't think that it's a team game.

You stated that "I know it's a team game and all that, BUT..." and then proceeded to put the blame unequivocally on Jim Johnson in said post, as well as your follow-up post.

And I don't have a problem with that, if that's the way you feel. Just don't beat around the bush and play both sides of the fence.

[Il BuonO]

All of the above please. But for the purposes of this poll and since I believe it's all about the pitching, I'll say Johnson's blown saves and the rotation. With the exception of Tillman of course, the ineffectiveness and inconsistency of the rotation has been a disappointment. Johnson with the exception of this last week has had a part in 16 losses combining his blown saves with losses(one of his blown saves we actually came back and won).

I like Johnson, but I am a firm believer that a BP should be used to match up and the roles should be less defined. I also don't believe any reliever is worth what he's making especially with the raise he'll be due. If Buck truly believes Johnson is his best reliever then we would have seen him at many different times during high leverage situations. But I don't expect that to change any time soon.

[AdamK]

Good.

Then you ought to go back and edit your previous post to omit the first line, since you don't think that it's a team game.

You stated that "I know it's a team game and all that, BUT..." and then proceeded to put the blame unequivocally on Jim Johnson in said post, as well as your follow-up post.

And I don't have a problem with that, if that's the way you feel. Just don't beat around the bush and play both sides of the fence.

No.

The title of the other thread was: If you HAD to point your finger, or if you HAD to place blame. I don't recall which.

I'm not playing both sides. Me starting the post off with "I know it's a team game and all that, BUT..." is not playing both sides. It was more meant as a sarcastic comment that apparently didn't come through since no emoticon was used too. Anyway... Are you keeping score with who agrees and who doesn't?

[OFFNY]

No.

The title of the other thread was: If you HAD to point your finger, or if you HAD to place blame. I don't recall which.

I'm not playing both sides. Me starting the post off with "I know it's a team game and all that, BUT......" is not playing both sides. It was more meant as a sarcastic comment that apparently didn't come through since no emoticon was used too. Anyway... Are you keeping score with who agrees and who doesn't?

No. I'm not keeping score.

I always take notice whenever someone makes a statement beginning with "I don't think this, BUT," and then proceeds to explain exactly why they DO think that ...... which is exactly what you did.

[hoosiers]

I didn't vote because I am not sure one person is to blame. We had some people mildly disappoint (JJohnson, Britton, Wieters) and others massively disappoint (Arrieta, Strop, Markakis) and others who were injured (Nolan, Hammel). Buck made some hugely bizarre in-game moves that appeared to directly result in losses and I am no fan of the moves of our GM this year - particularly at the trade deadline.

All that said, I think this team is falling right in line or better than the expectations of most - a couple wins north of .500 - perhaps 85 wins. This has been a season to enjoy mostly, but has been sidetracked by some brutal late losses.

My biggest disappointment is, again, the mid-season moves of our GM. We are in a weaker competitive position going forward because of these moves made in front of a tough September schedule and a team that will probably finish 5 games and at least two teams behind the second WC spot. It is really difficult to grasp how far away we are from the playoffs and how much of a prospect/draft pick load our GM gave up. As I've mentioned, those are the moves of a bottom of the pile GM.

[AdamK]

Find where I say "I think its a team sport an no one person is to blame, but..."

I said: "I know its a team game and all that... BUT..." implying a bit of sarcasm to the comment just made.

Allow me to be more specific for you: I don't think every loss is a TEAM LOSS. Saying it is a team loss is a convenient cliche that I don't have to live by. And no, I do not consider myself less of a fan for feeling that way.

Just because it is a team sport, doesn't mean everyone contributes to the moment when a game is lost. There is only one ball and when you hand it to a guy who repeatedly puts the first guy on, or allows runners to get to second with zero outs I have a hard time spreading responsibility around to the guys who played historically error free baseball all year long.

That is how I feel. That is likely how Jim Johnson feels. Is it nice of his teammates to have his back? Yes. Does that mean that all 25 players ought to receive a blown loss on their stat line? No.

Baseball is a romantic sport and you can appreciate the team aspect of it all you like. I do too. Johnson made costly mistakes that led to losses when we were in position to win. That is on Johnson. Not the Os.

[Redskins Rick]

Find where I say "I think its a team sport an no one person is to blame, but..."

I said: "I know its a team game and all that... BUT..." implying a bit of sarcasm to the comment just made.

Allow me to be more specific for you: I don't think every loss is a TEAM LOSS. Saying it is a team loss is a convenient cliche that I don't have to live by. And no, I do not consider myself less of a fan for feeling that way.

Just because it is a team sport, doesn't mean everyone contributes to the moment when a game is lost. There is only one ball and when you hand it to a guy who repeatedly puts the first guy on, or allows runners to get to second with zero outs I have a hard time spreading responsibility around to the guys who played historically error free baseball all year long.

That is how I feel. That is likely how Jim Johnson feels. Is it nice of his teammates to have his back? Yes. Does that mean that all 25 players ought to receive a blown loss on their stat line? No.

Baseball is a romantic sport and you can appreciate the team aspect of it all you like. I do too. Johnson made costly mistakes that led to losses when we were in position to win. That is on Johnson. Not the Os.

But, it has been pointed out that other teams have blown saves too. Rays and Red Sox to name two.

The Indians blew their save the other night and Giambi won it later with walkoff.

[isestrex]

I figured JJ would get the brunt of this poll but I was expecting a lot more vitriol for Buck given all the "fire Buck" threads this summer.

Personally I made this poll so I could specifically vote for the bottom option. Last year we got lucky... this year we didn't. There's really no "blame" to be dispersed.

[TiredofLosing20]

I didn't vote because I am not sure one person is to blame. We had some people mildly disappoint (JJohnson, Britton, Wieters) and others massively disappoint (Arrieta, Strop, Markakis) and others who were injured (Nolan, Hammel). Buck made some hugely bizarre in-game moves that appeared to directly result in losses and I am no fan of the moves of our GM this year - particularly at the trade deadline.

All that said, I think this team is falling right in line or better than the expectations of most - a couple wins north of .500 - perhaps 85 wins. This has been a season to enjoy mostly, but has been sidetracked by some brutal late losses.

I tend to agree with most of this.

My biggest disappointment is, again, the mid-season moves of our GM. We are in a weaker competitive position going forward because of these moves made in front of a tough September schedule and a team that will probably finish 5 games and at least two teams behind the second WC spot.

I don't know, if they remained pat at the deadline and they finished this way (or worse) then people would be critical of DD for not making any moves. I mean beginning the Tampa series they were 1 game out of the WC. The bats went cold.

For the most part I don't think we gave up much. I wasn't a fan of giving up Arrieta and Strop for Feldman but Feldman pitched pretty well and I don't really think Arrieta and Strop are long term answers for the O's. Bud Norris may provide pitching depth next year. KRod was a bizarre move but again I am not sure Delmonico is going to be an impactful MLer.

The picks hurt and maybe that is what is really giving you the heartburn. But I tend to think the window is going to close pretty fast for this team. The picks will probably be 3-4 years out from contributing.

It is really difficult to grasp how far away we are from the playoffs and how much of a prospect/draft pick load our GM gave up. As I've mentioned, those are the moves of a bottom of the pile GM.

They were in position to make the playoffs with about 10 games to go, I'd say they are pretty close. They gave up a bunch of players who I don't think will ever be major contributors. They gave up a couple of picks that may or may not pan out in 3-4 years (or more). Clearly this team is close but they just need more talent now. I would like this off season to be aggressive.

[theobird]

You can't just say "improve the club". You have to name players and propose contracts. Do you think Josh Hamilton would have put us over the top? Looking back at the list of guys, there are only 1 or 2 that you could say would have made a difference, and none who would have been worth the money. Greinke would have been great, but there is just no way the O's could afford to beat LA's 6 yrs. at $146 million. Nobody else on the market would have given us the coveted "TOR" SP.

Bourn would have been nice, but we already have a CF and I would not want to go to 5 yrs for a veteran OF whose major offensive asset is SBs, and McLouth was almost as good for much cheaper. Maybe Swisher, but are you really going to go to 5 yrs for RH DH?

Looking back, there are very few players I can say would have made a difference for us, and some could very well have hurt us.

Uhh OK. Koji. His preference was to return to Baltimore. Do you think Koji could have had a nice impact on our Team? It is gonna cost some $$$ to improve, no doubt. But when you are as close as we are, with the nucleus that we have, and you do nothing to improve the team then you get what you paid for. We paid for nothing, and we are now on the sidelines looking on. If we do the same thing this offseason, it will result in the same. IMO, Dan Duquette has ridden the good work of Andy MacPhail as far as it will go. It is time for him to step up.