Note to Boras---Wieters rated the 9th worst "framing"-

[Can_of_corn]

That's a good article. I am kinda convinced.

You see who the Rays picked up to back up Molina?

They certainly appear to be fully on board.

Like I said before I am sure there is an effect but skeptical it is as large as some are reporting.

[Frobby]

Another Camden Depot article, this one suggesting that Wieters' pitch framing has gotten a little worse each year: http://camdendepot.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-degradation-of-wieters-pitch.html

[joedogg9999]

I must have said this 1000 times last year, only to get negged for it each time. Theres a reason why our pitching staffs era was significantly better when wieters was not behind the plate. He needs to go. He cant hit, he cant help his pitchers out, and the only thing he does well is throw to 2nd. All he is is a hyped name. Trade him now.

[Can_of_corn]

I must have said this 1000 times last year, only to get negged for it each time. Theres a reason why our pitching staffs era was significantly better when wieters was not behind the plate. He needs to go. He cant hit, he cant help his pitchers out, and the only thing he does well is throw to 2nd. All he is is a hyped name. Trade him now.

So in under 1000 posts you said it 1000 times. No wonder you got neg repped.

Not a fan of lazy hyperbole.

[Frobby]

Interesting new article on pitch framing here: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/a-j-ellis-and-learning-to-improve-pitch-framing/

The accompanying data shows that in 2013 Wieters was 38th of 72 rated catchers in percentage of low strikes that were called balls, but 57th of 72 on high strikes that we're called balls. Overall, umpires miss more at the bottom of the zone than they do at the top, which makes sense since the top is near eye level. Either way, they are calling pitches in the zone balls less than 1% of the time. I'd guess the percentage of pitches outside the zone that are called strikes is higher than that.

[weams]

Interesting new article on pitch framing here: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/a-j-ellis-and-learning-to-improve-pitch-framing/

I'd guess the percentage of pitches outside the zone that are called strikes is higher than that.

That is what I would also expect. And one percent, is still a percent.

[webbrick2010]

It seems clear to me that Matt is physically too big to set a good low target, and he almost always backhands the low pitches with his thumb down which causes the glove to drop out of the strike zone as he receives the pitch. Even more annoying and easily fixable is that he is often late to set a target and noisy (glove moving around) as the pitcher is in his wind up.

I have actually been impressed with the little bit I have seen of Caleb Joseph in ST. He sets a very nice very quiet low strike zone target.

[Satyr3206]

Framing would be meaningless if the Umps would just call the strike zone as defined in the rulebook.

[Stotle]

Framing would be meaningless if the Umps would just call the strike zone as defined in the rulebook.

My guess is you haven't stood a few feet behind someone throwing major league caliber pitches. The reason framing matters is because perception of the ball can be skewed at that velocity/level of movement -- particularly considering the ump has to set up on the inner o outer half of the plate and view across the zone.

[Redskins Rick]

Framing would be meaningless if the Umps would just call the strike zone as defined in the rulebook.

true but its been around since the invention of the game.

[Frobby]

Here's some more data, now available on Baseball Prospectus. In 2013, of 30 catchers with at least 4,000 "framing chances," Wieters ranked 17th in "framing runs added by count," at -1.3 runs. This stat recognizes that the value of getting a call varies depending on what the count happens to be. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=1657791

BP also has a stat for "passed balls and wild pitches saved." Wieters ranks 4th in that category (best in the AL) at 43.6. This also can be expressed at "blocked runs added," 12.2. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=1657793

Bottom line, Wieters was just slightly below average at framing pitches in 2013, but pretty elite in pitch blocking. In prior years, Wieters was a little above average in pitch framing, while remaining elite in pitch blocking.

[Satyr3206]

My guess is you haven't stood a few feet behind someone throwing major league caliber pitches. The reason framing matters is because perception of the ball can be skewed at that velocity/level of movement -- particularly considering the ump has to set up on the inner o outer half of the plate and view across the zone.

I played baseball for a long time and yes I've hit off guys with ML caliber stuff. A friend of mine from years ago made it to Triple A in the Pirates organization and we used to have some great battles. My point is actually twofold. Framing is overrated and Umps don't call the strike zone correctly. JMO

[Kalkan]

I played baseball for a long time and yes I've hit off guys with ML caliber stuff. A friend of mine from years ago made it to Triple A in the Pirates organization and we used to have some great battles. My point is actually twofold. Framing is overrated and Umps don't call the strike zone correctly. JMO

So what is the problem with the way they measure the effect of pitch framing?

[Redskins Rick]

Here's some more data, now available on Baseball Prospectus. In 2013, of 30 catchers with at least 4,000 "framing chances," Wieters ranked 17th in "framing runs added by count," at -1.3 runs. This stat recognizes that the value of getting a call varies depending on what the count happens to be. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=1657791

BP also has a stat for "passed balls and wild pitches saved." Wieters ranks 4th in that category (best in the AL) at 43.6. This also can be expressed at "blocked runs added," 12.2. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=1657793

Bottom line, Wieters was just slightly below average at framing pitches in 2013, but pretty elite in pitch blocking. In prior years, Wieters was a little above average in pitch framing, while remaining elite in pitch blocking.

Nice work there,

IMO this nicely refutes the theory by some on OH, that Matt only has a cannon and otherwise stinks as a catcher.

[Satyr3206]

So what is the problem with the way they measure the effect of pitch framing?

I would put in on par with some of the defensive metrics. Very subjective, not well defined, and almost worthless.