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Schoop - The Blessing.

Ommaculate

By Ommaculate
in Orioles Talk

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clapdiddy Hangout Grand Counsel

clapdiddy

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Schoop is not going anywhere in the near future. He's exactly the type of player this team needs for the long haul...talented, young, great fielder and cost-controlled.

He and Manny could be cornerstones this team is built around for years to come.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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In the long term I expect Schoop to be miles better than Flaherty. He's five years younger, has played half as many games, and is 0.4 rWAR behind Flaherty in career value. Don't get me wrong, I like Flaherty and think he could start for a lot of teams, but he has nowhere near the potential that Schoop has. If you trade Schoop, you'd better get a king's ransom.

When Flaherty was Schoop's age he played pretty well in high A, then poorly in about a month in AA. There is a very wide gulf in expected future outcomes when comparing someone who is a MLB regular at 22, and one who only made the majors as a Rule 5 pick at 25/26. Just a swag, but I'd expect Flaherty's career to be in the Tim Hulett/Jeff Reboulet range, maybe a bit better depending on circumstances. While Schoop at least has the upside to be something like Alfonso Soriano sticking at second with plus defense. Not saying he'll necessarily play 15+ years with multiple AS games and some MVP votes, but he could.

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25 Nuggets Hangout Grand Counsel

25 Nuggets

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How often are you going to want to sit Machado? almost never

How often are you going to want to trade Hardy's SS defense for Flaherty's? only when Hardy really needs a rest

That leaves Schoop, and he needs to be playing almost everyday.

Fine, that means they'd all be in good health and doing well. This year we've seen two of them already go down, and Machado went down last year. Flaherty has not, and will not, have trouble getting PA.

I'm down to copying and pasting my own posts because I've run out of other ways to say it over the past two years.

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CA-ORIOLE Hangout Grand Counsel

CA-ORIOLE

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How often are you going to want to sit Machado? almost never

How often are you going to want to trade Hardy's SS defense for Flaherty's? only when Hardy really needs a rest

That leaves Schoop, and he needs to be playing almost everyday.

I would see if we could get a really nice haul for Schoop, as I don't think long-term he'll be THAT much better than Flaherty, so we could leverage our surplus of value at 2B by trading Schoop and upgrading in other positions, should we be able to get a genuinely good return for him.

Sadly. the thing to do may be to try and sell off Flaherty as a starter in the offseason.

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

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Sadly. the thing to do may be to try and sell off Flaherty as a starter in the offseason.

So when Manny went down Flaherty played well at 3B, when Hardy went down Flaherty filled in at SS and when Schoop went down Flaherty filled in well at 2B. Why do you trade that? He makes about a million this year. Maybe 2 million next year. His value is to keep the O's in the pennant race when injuries hit. And as we have seen, injuries do hit.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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Sadly. the thing to do may be to try and sell off Flaherty as a starter in the offseason.

I don't think there's much of a return there. Yes, his .248/.328/.386 line is better than his career averages and acceptable from a starter with a good glove. But that's also being driven by a .337 BABIP compared to a .275 career mark. His K rate and ISO are actually worse than his career averages. If I had to guess I'd say he's not quite as good in the 2nd half.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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So when Manny went down Flaherty played well at 3B, when Hardy went down Flaherty filled in at SS and when Schoop went down Flaherty filled in well at 2B. Why do you trade that? He makes about a million this year. Maybe 2 million next year. His value is to keep the O's in the pennant race when injuries hit. And as we have seen, injuries do hit.

Plus, you probably don't get a ton in return for a pretty good utility player. I'd just keep him.

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CA-ORIOLE Hangout Grand Counsel

CA-ORIOLE

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So when Manny went down Flaherty played well at 3B, when Hardy went down Flaherty filled in at SS and when Schoop went down Flaherty filled in well at 2B. Why do you trade that? He makes about a million this year. Maybe 2 million next year. His value is to keep the O's in the pennant race when injuries hit. And as we have seen, injuries do hit.

I'm probably one of the biggest RF fans on here. That said, he'll be an arb eligible utility player next year. Anytime you can sell off a guy like that for starter value, you look at it. Not saying we should, saying we should look at it. There are other utility players to be had.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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I'm probably one of the biggest RF fans on here. That said, he'll be an arb eligible utility player next year. Anytime you can sell off a guy like that for starter value, you look at it. Not saying we should, saying we should look at it. There are other utility players to be had.

We hadn't noticed. ;)

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CA-ORIOLE Hangout Grand Counsel

CA-ORIOLE

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I don't think there's much of a return there. Yes, his .248/.328/.386 line is better than his career averages and acceptable from a starter with a good glove. But that's also being driven by a .337 BABIP compared to a .275 career mark. His K rate and ISO are actually worse than his career averages. If I had to guess I'd say he's not quite as good in the 2nd half.

Hmmm. Might that babip improvement have something to do with his development and improved approach hitting the ball to all fields this year? While I agree with your concerns about he K rate (particularly) and ISO (less so) his BB rate is 10% this year.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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Hmmm. Might that babip improvement have something to do with his development and improved approach hitting the ball to all fields this year? While I agree with your concerns about he K rate (particularly) and ISO (less so) his BB rate is 10% this year.

Check his spray charts, are they significantly different?

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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Hmmm. Might that babip improvement have something to do with his development and improved approach hitting the ball to all fields this year? While I agree with your concerns about he K rate (particularly) and ISO (less so) his BB rate is 10% this year.

Could be, but 50 points? I'm skeptical, but I guess it's possible.

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

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Posted
I'm probably one of the biggest RF fans on here. That said, he'll be an arb eligible utility player next year. Anytime you can sell off a guy like that for starter value, you look at it. Not saying we should, saying we should look at it. There are other utility players to be had.

Buck is comfortable with Flaherty and he probably only commands around 2M next year. I don't think he gets traded. Look what happen this year. Dan signs Cabrera for 2.4m, adds Navarro to the minor league depth but Flaherty beats them both out for the utility spot.

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