How many wins will the closer role cost the Orioles?

[Flash- bd]

There is no need to wait to find a time to be reactionary. There are already plenty of data points showing Hunter is a suboptimal choice versus lefthanded batters and since I have no reason to think that will change I stated my thoughts. Hunter will almost certainly be worse against LHB this year because that's just how it works. Monday Morning Quarterbacking is for the stupid and lazy.

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What does one have to do with the other and how is argument from authority a good argument. If you don't want to present a logical reason this isn't a stupid idea then don't bother trying to defend it. I don't care if Pope Francis is picking our relievers, it's open to criticism and I think I have a point here.

I don't know how a guy can make unquestionable decisions in one paragraph and then in the next paragraph his closer decisions could rock the boat unless he pays tribute to a worthless stat. Buck has the power so this is Buck's decision and it absolutely falls on him. If the players don't like it I don't really care as long as the team wins. I don't see how eliminating the closer position makes the team worse.

For all intents and purposes I'm on your side in this debate, I think most of us can agree that having a closer is nonsense and that if you're going to have a closer it's much better that he can get both lefties and righties out than being a LOOGY/ROOGY () of sorts.

But just wanted to point out that the bolded is a bit specious, I think (I think!). Part of a manager's job is to keep the players happy, and while we don't have tangible evidence of its effect as its nearly impossible to measure, I think we can all agree a healthy, happy clubhouse is at least somewhat important in a team's success, no?

[Moshagge3]

Part of a manager's job is to keep the players happy, and while we don't have tangible evidence of its effect as its nearly impossible to measure, I think we can all agree a healthy, happy clubhouse is at least somewhat important in a team's success, no?

It's also sometimes part of a long con of sorts by the GM. Let Tommy Hunter rack up 25 saves or so, even if most of them are ugly or he blows a few, then ship him off at the trade deadline to some team that's in the race but having "closer" issues. Seattle with Fernando Rodney would be a prime candidate to give up way too much to land Hunter.

[Flash- bd]

It's also sometimes part of a long con of sorts by the GM. Let Tommy Hunter rack up 25 saves or so, even if most of them are ugly or he blows a few, then ship him off at the trade deadline to some team that's in the race but having "closer" issues. Seattle with Fernando Rodney would be a prime candidate to give up way too much to land Hunter.

Good point, though this only works if you're GM does in fact trade the pitcher. *Angry face at Duquette for not trading Johnson in 2012/winter of 2012-13 as I campaigned for him to do*

[El Gordo]

The simple fact is Hunter got all three lefties out. Until he starts getting burned by them why not go with him ? What are our better options?

[flyhighbirds]

Why don't we give Hunter a chance and see what he can do. Last year was last year and this year is this year.

[oldbird]

Hopefully not as many as Oaklands closer and Tampas closer does

[Roll Tide]

The simple fact is Hunter got all three lefties out. Until he starts getting burned by them why not go with him ? What are our better options?

I agree with you at this point Gordo. I think Barnaby is simply saying DD could've done a better job of finding a closer in the offseason. I agree after the fact that let Johnson go was a good thing. He's certainly not a ten million dollar player. Heck I really don't think any closer is worth ten mill for 50-60 innings.

[russ snyder]

The simple fact is Hunter got all three lefties out. Until he starts getting burned by them why not go with him ? What are our better options?

This is a good point. Hunter did his job yesterday.

While I think that the closer's role is a bit overrated, it is something that is not going away anytime soon in MLB.

The one thing a manger does by designating someone the closer is to define the role on the team.

If nothing else, the role gives the bullpen structure, and a major part of managing is defining roles and structuring the team within these roles.

Is the Orioles closer going to cost some games this year? Of course, but that does not mean that having the manager play match up in late

innings would not alter the bull pen's structure or potentially wear out some guys from overuse.

[Frobby]

The simple fact is Hunter got all three lefties out. Until he starts getting burned by them why not go with him ? What are our better options?

Additionally, they had already used Britton in the 6th and 7th and Matusz in the 8th. Exactly who was supposed to pitch the 9th? Do we have to save a LHP for 9th inning matchups in every close game? You might lose in the 6th-8th if you do.

[Pickles]

For all intents and purposes I'm on your side in this debate, I think most of us can agree that having a closer is nonsense and that if you're going to have a closer it's much better that he can get both lefties and righties out than being a LOOGY/ROOGY () of sorts.

But just wanted to point out that the bolded is a bit specious, I think (I think!). Part of a manager's job is to keep the players happy, and while we don't have tangible evidence of its effect as its nearly impossible to measure, I think we can all agree a healthy, happy clubhouse is at least somewhat important in a team's success, no?

Players like defined roles.

They are not automatons.

I think this is consistently overlooked in the discussions here about bullpen usage.

[Flash- bd]

Players like defined roles.

They are not automatons.

I think this is consistently overlooked in the discussions here about bullpen usage.

I would agree.

[weams]

I'm sorry Jim did not do well. For me and the rest of us Orioles fans, I am glad I got the chance to quiet the one bus group from Boston that sat behind us.

[weams]

"I would have booed me, too,'' Johnson said. "I deserved it. The next time, though, they'll be cheering.''

Johnson, with 101 saves in the past two seasons, has no shortage of confidence. As he was quick to point out, after he put men on, with his sinker as an out pitch, he's always one pitch away from a double play. Just not on this night.

Oakland Athletics starting pitcher Sonny Gray delivers against the Cleveland Indians during the first inning of their season-opening Major League Baseball

Oakland Athletics starting pitcher Sonny Gray delivers against the Cleveland Indians during the first inning of their season-opening Major League Baseball game, Monday, March 31, 2014 at O.co Coliseum in Oakland, Calif. (D. Ross Cameron/Bay Area News Group) ( D. ROSS CAMERON )

The right-hander faced five hitters and got just one out, a sacrifice fly off the bat of Nyjer Morgan that produced the game's first run. The second came on a single by former Athletic Nick Swisher, after which manager Bob Melvin replaced Johnson as an unhappy full house made its displeasure known.

"He'd given up a couple of runs,'' Melvin said in explaining why he lifted his closer. "We don't what him to throw too many pitches this early in the season. We don't want him out there throwing 30 pitches.''

Johnson, who wound up throwing 17 pitches, appeared in nine games this spring, posting a 5.00 ERA while giving up 14 base runners in nine innings, 11 hits and three walks.

http://www.mercurynews.com/athletics/ci_25462298/moss-not-cespedes-hitting-cleanup-opener-vs-cleveland

[ScottP]

I swear I saw Buck fishing in his pockets for a pack of Raleighs.

[stomperspc]

I was encouraged by Hunter's outing yesterday in many respects.

He is not going to hit many batters and the Middlebrooks at bat seemed to be a combination of being overhyped and trying too hard against a guy he has had some struggles against in the past. Pedroia is Pedroia. I have got to imagine one of the tougher parts of being a closer is that the margin of error can be so small that you find yourself in trouble right away without making any huge mistakes. I was impressed by the way he handled that particular adversity in his first game as closer. In between the two at bats that ended with the batter reaching base, Hunter handled Nava relatively easily and induced weak contact on a fastball. Ortiz is one of the tougher on-paper match ups for Hunter (and Ortiz has hit him well historically) but Hunter managed to get ahead and then get him out, despite throwing "only" a 93 MPH fourseamer on the out pitch. He was great against Bradley in getting ahead, trying to get him to chase, then coming back into the zone when he missed a couple of times. The only batter he feel behind of that inning was Nava. He went 0-2 on the final 3 batters of the game. I like seeing that from the closer.

Hunter is going to blow some leads. He is going to blow some leads because of his struggles versus LHP. I still think at the end of the day he has a very good shot of being an average or above average closer as it relates to the thread topic ("costing the Orioles wins"). Today was just one game so I don't put a ton of stock into it, but it certainly did nothing to make me think differently.