And that's why Joseph catches most games

[Tony-OH]

Still can't believe there is fans that think MW stinks at calling games *huge eye roll * I wonder if buck would agree with that BS.

It's not just "fans". I know plenty of scouts that agree with my evaluation that Wieters is not a great game caller. He prepares well, and works with his pitchers, but he's not a great in-game pitch caller who struggles to have a good feel for the game, batter and pitcher. He calls for too many of the same pitches in the same location for my taste. It's not all the time of course, but he's made some real bad calls that have cost his team.

[Tony-OH]

Maybe playing every day is starting to expose the fact that he's not a ML player.

He's probably not an average every day catcher because his bat may not let him be, but don't let one bad game defensively cause you to think he's being exposed. Also, his bat has been better of late which means it's been just the opposite. He's not being exposed but making adjustments.

[Three Run Homer]

Maybe playing every day is starting to expose the fact that he's not a ML player.

Aside from last night's game, his defensive performance has definitely been of major league caliber. It may be that he needs a day off, but unlike hitting and pitching there's no rational basis for believing that a new callup who plays good defense out of the gate will then "come back to earth" as the league catches up and adjusts. There's no way to adjust to a talented defensive player.

[Can_of_corn]

Aside from last night's game, his defensive performance has definitely been of major league caliber. It may be that he needs a day off, but unlike hitting and pitching there's no rational basis for believing that a new callup who plays good defense out of the gate will then "come back to earth" as the league catches up and adjusts. There's no way to adjust to a talented defensive player.

Sure there is. The borderline base stealing threats stop running.

[CA-ORIOLE]

It's not just "fans". I know plenty of scouts that agree with my evaluation that Wieters is not a great game caller. He prepares well, and works with his pitchers, but he's not a great in-game pitch caller who struggles to have a good feel for the game, batter and pitcher. He calls for too many of the same pitches in the same location for my taste. It's not all the time of course, but he's made some real bad calls that have cost his team.

This opinion will get you beat up and a "You're not smarter than Buck" smack down.

[Tony-OH]

This opinion will get you beat up and a "You're not smarter than Buck" smack down.

That's ok, I respect Buck and anyone other scout or professional evaluator who thinks Wieters game calling is a plus. Personally I think he's slightly below average, but not horrible all the time. I've talked with scouts in and out of the organization and there are not a lot of guys disagreeing with that assessment.

[CA-ORIOLE]

That's ok, I respect Buck and anyone other scout or professional evaluator who thinks Wieters game calling is a plus. Personally I think he's slightly below average, but not horrible all the time. I've talked with scouts in and out of the organization and there are not a lot of guys disagreeing with that assessment.

I can't say that those opinions surprise me. Other than stopping the running game, I have never seen anything special there defensively. I consider him a bit above average defensively (i think that's where the metrics have him), but I wouldn't argue much about an average opinion by a scout, especially when you get into the more subjective issues of his game.

His all-around game and durability have been his major strengths. Have to seriously question that now going forward with injury/arm issues.

[Can_of_corn]

I can't say that those opinions surprise me. Other than stopping the running game, I have never seen anything special there defensively. I consider him a bit above average defensively (i think that's where the metrics have him), but I wouldn't argue much about an average opinion by a scout, especially when you get into the more subjective issues of his game.

His all-around game and durability have been his major strengths. Have to seriously question that now going forward with injury/arm issues.

The year he won the Fielding Bible award he was a monster blocking balls. Very good PB/WP numbers.

He hasn't shown that same all around defensive game since then however.

[CA-ORIOLE]

The year he won the Fielding Bible award he was a monster blocking balls. Very good PB/WP numbers.

He hasn't shown that same all around defensive game since then however.

I haven looked at the numbers for that particular year, but Frobby brought this up a while back. Maybe that year there was something special in that area, but not overall when you dig into the metrics (DRS, specifically). He may be slightly above average at it, but it's not a special skill imo. DRS valuates each WP/PB individually by its complexity. He doesn't allow a lot of wild pitches/PB's because we have many high/FB/low K rate pitchers. In short, his counting numbers are lower because his chances area easier. DRS compensates.

You look at some of the guys with higher WP/PB rates and you'll often see higher GB rates, Higher BB rates, higher K rates and pitchers who make chances more difficult, usually pitching lower in the strike zone and probably with better offspeed stuff.

In the same light, his CS rate is mitigated to some extent (still above average of course) by the etraordinary effort we have put on our pitchers to hold runners.

So, DRS has him barely above average overall, finding him pretty mediocre in almost all categories except CS%/running game. Before you mention the cera component, he's above average overall in that area. Frobby mentioned BP's metrics but they actually have him worse (basically average) overall when you look at the final numbers/evaluation.

This doesn't even get into the more arbitrary issues with framing and game calling etc. (which some people have taken issues with in the past). Just not that surprising to me to hear information from Tony's scout contacts that Wieter's is not that highly regarded defensively.

[Can_of_corn]

Calm down.

I was just pointing out the one season.

He had an outlier year on defense and beat out Molina.

Career years happen with the glove as well.

[CA-ORIOLE]

calm down.

i was just pointing out the one season.

He had an outlier year on defense and beat out molina.

Career years happen with the glove as well.

What !!!! I"m being calm !!!!