And that's why Joseph catches most games

[webbrick2010]

Huh? You really think he was going to pull Britton when he was one pitch away from getting out of it around 17 pitches into the inning? You gotta really be stretching it to blame Buck here. Britton has been great all year and is the closer. He was overthrowing and struggling to command his sinker tonight, but also was throwing some great pitches. In the end, he blew it, but to me, this was a combination of Britton being too hyped up and overthrowing and Hundley having little feel for his pitcher and the game.

I don't care how close he was after 17 pitches... He gave up a HR on his 27th pitch. I'm betting the league OPS against all the closers in the league jumps by a huge margin after 20 pitches, and even more after 25.

If you want to be a slave to the save rule and never offend your close I guess you have a lot of blown saves. Frobby has another thread counting all of the blown saves for the O's over the past two years, and i'm betting that a high % came after the close was extended past 20 pitches

[webbrick2010]

Look I know the old adage of not getting beat with your 2nd or 3rd best pitch, but you have to mix in a different pitch once in a while, especially when he wasn't able to command the sinker tonight. Heck, a few times he actually got arm-side run instead of sink and unless he was trying to do that (i doubt it) it showed that things were just not working. I especially would have tried the slider to McCann.

Some of this is the fact that I'm not a fan of one-pitch pitchers, no matter how good that pitch is. Some nights Britton can just throw the pitch because he's commanding down in the zone. Tonight wasn't that night. A good catcher has to see this and call something else. Again, it's a feel thing. Britton has been amazing this year primarily throwing the sinker, but tonight was one of the few nights he wasn't commanding the pitch. that's the time you go to his other offerings.

A good manager has to see this, and pull him

[eddie83]

A good manager has to see this, and pull him

No manager would have pulled him. When was the last time you saw a manager yank a closer with a lead?

[CA-ORIOLE]

Look I know the old adage of not getting beat with your 2nd or 3rd best pitch, but you have to mix in a different pitch once in a while, especially when he wasn't able to command the sinker tonight. Heck, a few times he actually got arm-side run instead of sink and unless he was trying to do that (i doubt it) it showed that things were just not working. I especially would have tried the slider to McCann.

Some of this is the fact that I'm not a fan of one-pitch pitchers, no matter how good that pitch is. Some nights Britton can just throw the pitch because he's commanding down in the zone. Tonight wasn't that night. A good catcher has to see this and call something else. Again, it's a feel thing. Britton has been amazing this year primarily throwing the sinker, but tonight was one of the few nights he wasn't commanding the pitch. that's the time you go to his other offerings.

Again, not saying you're wrong. I thought the same thing, but Hundley has been in the doghouse and probably intimidated to switch off the sinker imo. He was trying to calm him down.

[Tony-OH]

A good manager has to see this, and pull him

You don't live in a reality that we live in. At no point in that inning did I think Britton was going to or should have been yanked. He's the closer. He's been the team's best pitcher. what manager in his right mind would take out his closer in the 9th inning before he blows a save? What manager in his right mind would put a guy who has struggled more time than he's been good in to replace their closer before he blew the save in the 9th? You are not making sense in the least bit.

We can discuss and disagree over Hundley's role, but I don't think there is a sane person on this board who blaming Buck for this besides you.

[notyourbuddy]

All Oriole closers suffer from the Yankee Yips. I think its hereditary.

[Carroll County]

I think you misread. I was never a fan of Wieter's game calling and felt Hundley called it like Wieters would have.

Ah, you're right, I did.

They're equally worthless when it comes to boosting their pitcher's effectiveness. Can't argue against that.

[bpilktree]

You don't live in a reality that we live in. At no point in that inning did I think Britton was going to or should have been yanked. He's the closer. He's been the team's best pitcher. what manager in his right mind would take out his closer in the 9th inning before he blows a save? What manager in his right mind would put a guy who has struggled more time than he's been good in to replace their closer before he blew the save in the 9th? You are not making sense in the least bit.

We can discuss and disagree over Hundley's role, but I don't think there is a sane person on this board who blaming Buck for this besides you.

Yeah i could just see Buck comming out to get Britton in that spot and seeing Hunter trotting in. The game thread would hit 100 pages in like one minute.

[Tony-OH]

Again, not saying you're wrong. I thought the same thing, but Hundley has been in the doghouse and probably intimidated to switch off the sinker imo. He was trying to calm him down.

You may vary well be right. But again, a good catcher has to have a feel for his pitcher and the game. I'm not saying the 3-1 pitch to Beltran should have been slider, I'm saying there were many times in that inning I was thinking "throw him a slider." Grant it, I'm not a fan of any one-pitch pitchers and as good as Britton's sinker can be, I still think he needs to show batters another pitch on occasion, just to keep them honest, especially when he's struggling to command his best weapon. 9 times out of 10, the sinker is probably his best pitch, but there are times a catcher has to go with that slider, and against the lefties is a great time.

[Tony-OH]

Ah, you're right, I did.

They're equally worthless when it comes to boosting their pitcher's effectiveness. Can't argue against that.

I have a hard time respecting Wieter's game calling in the least bit after his pitch calls to Lord Voldemort in the playoffs two years ago. Some of the most truly dumb pitch calls I've ever witnessed in a major league game.

[bpilktree]

You may every well be right. But again, a good catcher has to have a feel for his pitcher and the game. I'm not saying the 3-1 pitch to Beltran should have been slider, I'm saying there were many times in that inning I was thinking "throw his a slider." Grant it, I'm not a fan of any one-pitch pitchers and as good as Britton's sinker can be, I still think he needs to show batters another pitch on occasion, just to keep them honest, especially when he's struggling to command his best weapon. 9 times out of 10, the sinker is probably his best pitch, but there are times a catcher has to go with that slider, and against the lefties is a great time.

I agree I don't think you throw a slider to Beltran though I would not have mind him throwing one to Mccann. His slider is good to lefties and keeps them away from pulling one down the line in Yankee stadium.

[Carroll County]

I have a hard time respecting Wieter's game calling in the least bit after his pitch calls to Lord Voldemort in the playoffs two years ago. Some of the most truly dumb pitch calls I've ever witnessed in a major league game.

Oh wow, I'd forgotten about that at bat by now, thanks for reminding me :rolleyestf:

Edit: The game winner - also had forgotten that he had one earlier that night to tie the game.

[BobbyWoontz]

They were all sinkers from what I could tell. Even at 97 they were diving. However, at 97-98, they tend to straighten out more, hence the thought that he was overthrowing. 95 with extreme movement is better than 98 with less movement.

Sure didn't look like a sinker to me on the HR. Looked like a fastball high and inside part of the plate.

[Tony-OH]

Sure didn't look like a sinker to me on the HR. Looked like a fastball high and inside part of the plate.

That one straightened out on him. Maybe he did throw a four-seamer there, but it was most likely a sinker that just didn't sink. I couldn't stomach a replay and left the room as soon as I saw Beltran hit the ball. I honestly never saw where it landed. That's how fast I left the room before I had to break something.

[Guest]

Young Closer in New York doesn't have his stuff why didn't Wallace go out and talk to him?

Has Wallace went out yet? So dumb not sending him out.