Orioles messing with Gausman again what's new.

[Can_of_corn]

Eh, it's a loooong season. Tomorrow night is one of those games that would be HUGE to win, but wouldn't be completely devastating to lose. The key this weekend was not to get swept. Worst case, we'll have a 2-game lead over the Jays and a 3-game lead over NY going into the break. Is there anyone on this board who wouldn't have happily accepted that scenario a month ago?

Even so, I really hope we take the series! Seeing so many NY fans at OPACY this week has been pretty nauseating; sure would like to send them all home disappointed tomorrow night.

I am more worried about how they do on the west coast swing then I am about the Yankees.

[weams]

Was his going back and forth between the minors and majors mostly due to his season innings limit?

"That is an important consideration," Duquette said. "His development, we'd like him to be a frontline starter for many years and he's doing his part. He is establishing himself as a major league pitcher. He's got more consistent command, better secondary pitches. More consistent in every way this year."

I asked Duquette if service time considerations were a part of how Gausman has been handled this year?

"You know, I think it's important for the players to develop," Duquette said. "Some players will have significant development time in the minors and some will have significant development time in the majors. Kevin has been shuttling back and forth and doing a good job in both places."

Has going back and forth been a detriment to that development process?

"Well, he's improving," Duquette said. "He wants to be a good big league pitcher and he's on his way. He's doing a good job. He worked hard in the offseason and he's serious about being a good pitcher.

"He's competed and beat some of the best pitchers in the American League. He beat Oakland and he squared off against Sonny Gray. That was like Friday night starters in the SEC. LSU against Vanderbilt. Think Kevin had a lot of fun that day?"

http://www.masnsports.com/steve-melewski/2014/07/duq-draft-do-not-pub.html

[hoosiers]

I get back to original comments that this treatment of Gausman is highly unusual - yo-yoing him back and forth and having him pitch in only a few innings at times. It seems that Melewski asked the good questions and DD kind of bobbed and weaved.

I do have some additional concern about the innings limit. The Os are attempting to control Gausman's IP such that he remains within his total innings limit, but that the innings are skewed toward the second half of the year - though I am more used to seeing teams have players start at the beginning of the season in the majors and then get shut down - like the Nats with Stausburg. My concern is the injury risk due to the workload concentration in the second half. Not sure if this is a vaid concern and whether any studies have been done on it

I am glad it appears Gausman is up to stay.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I get back to original comments that this treatment of Gausman is highly unusual - yo-yoing him back and forth and having him pitch in only a few innings at times. It seems that Melewski asked the good questions and DD kind of bobbed and weaved.

I do have some additional concern about the innings limit. The Os are attempting to control Gausman's IP such that he remains within his total innings limit, but that the innings are skewed toward the second half of the year - though I am more used to seeing teams have players start at the beginning of the season in the majors and then get shut down - like the Nats with Stausburg. My concern is the injury risk due to the workload concentration in the second half. Not sure if this is a vaid concern and whether any studies have been done on it

I am glad it appears Gausman is up to stay.

GM's are always going to "bob and weave" around service times issues/questions since it's a big no-no to admit it is even a factor.

[El Gordo]

GM's are always going to "bob and weave" around service times issues/questions since it's a big no-no to admit it is even a factor.

If it wasn't an issue he would have just said no. The fact that he dodged it suggests it is, and we might see Gausman sent down again.

[Stotle]

I get back to original comments that this treatment of Gausman is highly unusual - yo-yoing him back and forth and having him pitch in only a few innings at times. It seems that Melewski asked the good questions and DD kind of bobbed and weaved.

I do have some additional concern about the innings limit. The Os are attempting to control Gausman's IP such that he remains within his total innings limit, but that the innings are skewed toward the second half of the year - though I am more used to seeing teams have players start at the beginning of the season in the majors and then get shut down - like the Nats with Stausburg. My concern is the injury risk due to the workload concentration in the second half. Not sure if this is a vaid concern and whether any studies have been done on it

I am glad it appears Gausman is up to stay.

It may make sense from a service time standpoint, but there was massive eye rolling amongst evaluators in Minneapolis this weekend when it was mentioned Gausman was being sent back down to Triple A. People seemed split as to whether it would have a negative impact on the Orioles's reputation among players. I tend to think no, since it really only affects players under team control, so it isn't like a free agent would worry about this sort of blatant service time manipulation. But some folks said it's enough that the homegrown players could be left with a bad taste in their mouth, and might not be keen on selling the org to other players that inquire.

Then again, Baltimore was aggressive with Manny and didn't really play any service time games that I can recall. So who knows...

[Can_of_corn]

It may make sense from a service time standpoint, but there was massive eye rolling amongst evaluators in Minneapolis this weekend when it was mentioned Gausman was being sent back down to Triple A. People seemed split as to whether it would have a negative impact on the Orioles's reputation among players. I tend to think no, since it really only affects players under team control, so it isn't like a free agent would worry about this sort of blatant service time manipulation. But some folks said it's enough that the homegrown players could be left with a bad taste in their mouth, and might not be keen on selling the org to other players that inquire.

Then again, Baltimore was aggressive with Manny and didn't really play any service time games that I can recall. So who knows...

And they have had ample reasons to send Schoop down and haven't.

[Stotle]

And they have had ample reasons to send Schoop down and haven't.

Good point. What's his service time like. Is he close to a year cutoff?

[Can_of_corn]

Good point. What's his service time like. Is he close to a year cutoff?

Five games last year, not sure how many days. Been up everyday so far this season.

This could be blow-back specifically for Gasuman as a reaction to how the initial signing went. I know they had to pay overslot.

[Fiver]

Seems to me like the shuttling has a lot more to do with roster manipulation than it does service time. If one of the other starters suffers an injury (like Jimenez apparently has) he will be up longer.

My guess would be he's up for good now. I'd rather have it this way than the Strasburg way where he is shut down headed to the playoffs.

[weams]

Good point. What's his service time like. Is he close to a year cutoff?

For super two. We do know that many of the folks you talk with are not big Orioles, or Dan Duquette fans. I am sure Keven wished he were up for the whole season. I assume he is happy enough with how things are working out for him. It's an honor to play for Buck. And to be a part of this club house.

[hoosiers]

It may make sense from a service time standpoint, but there was massive eye rolling amongst evaluators in Minneapolis this weekend when it was mentioned Gausman was being sent back down to Triple A. People seemed split as to whether it would have a negative impact on the Orioles's reputation among players. I tend to think no, since it really only affects players under team control, so it isn't like a free agent would worry about this sort of blatant service time manipulation. But some folks said it's enough that the homegrown players could be left with a bad taste in their mouth, and might not be keen on selling the org to other players that inquire.

Then again, Baltimore was aggressive with Manny and didn't really play any service time games that I can recall. So who knows...

Not commenting on whether I think Gausman's treatment is correct or not, I would think Gausman's agent would be considering filing a complaint. I keep mentioning this treatment is highly unusual, perhaps unprecedented, and get no response.

The Os are able to carry out this plan with Gausman because he is a starting pitcher and is needed once every five days or so and sometimes twice in 11 days. I wonder if this might not be something changed in the service time rules going forward since clearly one day of a starting pitcher is worth five starts or days of service to an everyday player or relief pitcher.

The Os are certainly working within the rules, however, considering the player had accrued service time last year, I have to think this treatment does not sit well with the agent or the player (though teams play some shenanigans with service time all the time - just not to this extent).

Anyway, based on how Gausman has pitched this first half, I don't think there is any question the team has a lesser won-loss record than if Gausman had started the season in the rotation.

Generally, I don't think this type of treatment is a fair treatment of the player - doesn't get to travel/be with the team, sees his services highly valued while his service clock is delayed (after accruing a good bit of service time last year), etc. If KG is taking this all in stride, great.

[BohKnowsBmore]

In all of this talk about how this may be potential service time manipulation, any consideration of how quickly he's made it to the majors?

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[atomic]

Not commenting on whether I think Gausman's treatment is correct or not, I would think Gausman's agent would be considering filing a complaint. I keep mentioning this treatment is highly unusual, perhaps unprecedented, and get no response.

The Os are able to carry out this plan with Gausman because he is a starting pitcher and is needed once every five days or so and sometimes twice in 11 days. I wonder if this might not be something changed in the service time rules going forward since clearly one day of a starting pitcher is worth five starts or days of service to an everyday player or relief pitcher.

The Os are certainly working within the rules, however, considering the player had accrued service time last year, I have to think this treatment does not sit well with the agent or the player (though teams play some shenanigans with service time all the time - just not to this extent).

Anyway, based on how Gausman has pitched this first half, I don't think there is any question the team has a lesser won-loss record than if Gausman had started the season in the rotation.

Generally, I don't think this type of treatment is a fair treatment of the player - doesn't get to travel/be with the team, sees his services highly valued while his service clock is delayed (after accruing a good bit of service time last year), etc. If KG is taking this all in stride, great.

If we can get an extra year out of Gausman and he can pitch the rest of the year why are you complaining? The team is trying to win games and stay competive in the future... Seems like DD knows what he is doing.

[Chavez Ravine]

I guess these are called "stud pitching prospect" problems.