Is this a fair deal for the O's AND Cubs?

[Fairfax Bird]

He might put up an 850 OPS year in the next couple years if he played every day. I never wrote it was impossible.

Wow, I basically wrote the same thing, which is what started this crusade you are on. I said I think he could be an 850 OPS if he played every day. Now after crusading for 5 pages of this thread you are saying he might be as well.

[Number5]

Good point Buster.

[Fairfax Bird]

I think Murton already is a pretty good player. I definitely thinks he adds value to any team. However, his value on the Orioles would be as a 4th outfielder. He won't displace Scott, AJ, or Markakis. He simply isn't good enough to be a starter for us. That doesn't mean he isn't valuable. Why would we want to trade for him as the biggest or 2nd biggest piece in a deal when he won't even start as a 26 year old for us?

Ultimately he should be starting for our team. I think he is already better than Huff and should be our DH.

[Roll Tide]

I think Murton already is a pretty good player. I definitely thinks he adds value to any team. However, his value on the Orioles would be as a 4th outfielder. He won't displace Scott, AJ, or Markakis. He simply isn't good enough to be a starter for us. That doesn't mean he isn't valuable. Why would we want to trade for him as the biggest or 2nd biggest piece in a deal when he won't even start as a 26 year old for us?

Scott could realistically be moved to 1st base. At 25 Murton fits better in our rebuilding plans than any of Huff , Millar , Payton. I agree with Scott in the OF he could be the 4th . But AB's can be found at DH, and when they reat Markakis & Jones (Lets say 10 games each). I see no problem with getting 500AB's.

They should be able to move Millar & Payton before the end of the off season. Gibbons should be traded of designated for assignment. Maybe the O's wont ...but thats a poor decision on our part. Murton could be inserted in the 3 slot ahead of Markakis (at 4) & Scott (at 5).

[Roll Tide]

So, you want to trade Roberts for a package where the best or 2nd best player coming back is a 26 year old guy who is marginally better than our current DH?

Murton wont be 26 until October & he's only marginally better than Gibbons or Millar ??? LOL ( or Huff who is horrible for the first 3/4 of the season last year)

Honestly .. None of this should matter ..Murton should be here if the 4 for 1 is on the table & 2 or 3 of the above guys should be gone 1 way or another!

[Number5]

AM has been praised for the return he managed to get in the Tejada and Bedard trades. These were two players that we had to trade, yet he was patient, held his ground and got top dollar, if not more, for both of them. Although the Tejada trade appeared to go down quickly, you can bet that there was a lot of behind the scenes negotiations on that one before it went down. He held firm in the Bedard trade and got Butler or Mickolio changed to Butler and Mickolio.

Roberts, on the other hand, is not a guy that the Orioles must move. Do you think AM is going to just take any offer for him? Do you think AM is going to buckle under pressure and take less than Roberts value to do a deal in a hurry? I don't think so.

Stay the course.

[Insomniac]

Murton wont be 26 until October & he's only marginally better than Gibbons or Millar ???

Not that it matters to the argument you two are having, but Murton is 26 now, and turns 27 this coming October.

[Roll Tide]

Not that it matters to the argument you two are having, but Murton is 26 now, and turns 27 this coming October.

Thanks for pointing it out!

[Roll Tide]

So, you want to move a good second baseman (Roberts) to get a player to effectively replace either Millar or Huff? The upgrade over Millar or Huff is marginal at best. Maybe 40 OPS points at the most. Don't you agree that this isn't nearly enough marginal improvement to offset the loss we'd likely suffer at 2nd base?

At least one of the other players would have to pan out really well for this deal to make sense, because the Murton replacement is a very minor upgrade.

Murton IMO can be here 10 years ... Hit 300 w/ ops between .800-.875. Much better than Huff & Millar. We get Cedeno who quite possibly be a huge upgrade over LH. He might not be & might be a bust. Gallagher would also become our 2 or 3rd best pitcher IMO.

They could easily go out & get a 2B prospect... I dont think its patterson from the Cubs. I've said repeatedly that we could get Chen from Seattle (their #17 a prospect with some upside 17 due to shoulder injury) At a minor expense. We could also add Lillibridge or Hu or Brignac & send Cedeno to 2B. Either way the 4 player Roberts trade makes us a better team in 2-3 years.

[Rob H]

I don't have the foggiest idea where Gibbons came from. He is marginally better than Huff. I'm not sure he is even marginally better this year than Millar.

Again, you're trading an 800ish 2nd basemen. Why would you create a huge hole at 2nd to get a marginal upgrade in another area? And please don't respond something that has to do with age. Age should be used as a factor in projection, not as a reason why a guy shouldn't be on a team.

To be fair, age does have something to do with why a guy shouldn't be on a team. Branch Rickey always used to say “better trade a player a year too early than a year too late"

[Roll Tide]

To be fair, age does have something to do with why a guy shouldn't be on a team. Branch Rickey always used to say “better trade a player a year too early than a year too late"

Good post Rob .. I think Mcphail said something close to that in his PC.

[owl]

Maybe 40 OPS points at the most. Don't you agree that this isn't nearly enough marginal improvement to offset the loss we'd likely suffer at 2nd base?

...

And please don't respond something that has to do with age.

Are you forgetting what the organization's goal is here? What's that difference in 2009? 2010? 2011?

Murton, right now, is better than an .800 OPS everyday LF. If you want to put him in against just lefties, you'll get closer to .900. If you let him play every day, I don't see why .850 is such a reach... The Cubs are only trading him because they forced a fixture into left (Murton can't play right very well) and then bought one for right (and he can't play center). Murton very well may be traded elsewhere, making most of the prior moot anyway.

Gallagher is probably the 4th or 5th best starting option the Cubs have for 2008; and most, outside half of management, believe Cedeno should be starting over Theriot at short--and if he's not traded and has a good spring, there's a good chance he does. This is really being sold short here -- you're not getting this "proposed" deal. The Cubs also don't want Jay Payton. If it gives some negative value and they fail in the Byrd-etc. pursuit, perhaps they'd take him on but that's about it.

[Roll Tide]

There is no doubt that we could come out ahead if we went ahead with that proposed 4 for 1. As I wrote before, I'm on the fence. I'm merely saying Murton's value in this trade isn't as much as it would have been before we had Scott and Jones. And because of that, we will need 2 of the 3 other guys in this trade to work out really well for us to come out ahead. Those are not real good odds in my opinion.

If we make the trade, I won't be upset. I just don't see it as a slam dunk. I saw the Bedard and Tejada trade as slams dunks.

I AGREE THEY WONT BE AS STRONG A RETURN. ROBERTS IS A VALUABLE PLAYER . JUST WONT MAKE A DIFFERENCE HERE & MAY NOT RESIGN:D

(sorry bout the caps)

[Fairfax Bird]

So, you want to trade Roberts for a package where the best or 2nd best player coming back is a 26 year old guy who is marginally better than our current DH?

Yes ... for a package of Gallagher, Murton, Cedeno, and Fotenot I would trade Roberts. ABSOLUTELY.

[skiba7]

Let's compare apples to apples. Robinson Cano just got 4 years $30 million from the Yankees.

Come on man, that's a completely different situation.