Drum beat a little louder for Cubs deal

[Mackus]

Hell I just wish Andy M would say enough is enough. Roberts will be starting second this season. Maybe Roberts would sign an extension to his contarct. Hell let the man retire an Oriole. I know it won't or probably won't happen but i am starting to wish taht Roberts could stay with the O's his career. Forget the trade business.

If he'd consider extending, that'd be a reasonable route to take (although arguable if its a smart idea to sign a middle-aged 2B to a big money deal). However, there is absoltuely no chance Roberts extends before hitting FA.

[Tx Oriole]

I guess you are right.

[Number5]

If he'd consider extending, that'd be a reasonable route to take (although arguable if its a smart idea to sign a middle-aged 2B to a big money deal). However, there is absoltuely no chance Roberts extends before hitting FA.

Has he said that?

I can see him considering extending if he likes the way things are shaping up after this season, especially if we are able to sign Tex.

Besides, Keeping Roberts for now has other benefits regardless of whether he extends or not. His value as a leader/role model to our younger players, for one. The Cubs are certainly not making a "gotta pull the trigger" type of offer so far, so I see no real downside to holding off for now. Some of the posts we see from some Cub fans to the contrary, I don't believe offers for Roberts at the deadline, or even next off season will be appreciably less than what the Cubs are offering now. I think the odds are in our favor that someone, perhaps even the Cubs themselves, will offer more later.

After all, what are they really offering? Which of the players rumored to be offered by the Cubs do you see as being better than Roberts and being players we can rebuild the team around?

[glorydays]

I contemplated starting a new thread with this one but didn't think it was significant enough so I am putting it here.

According to MLBTR, The Marlins Jose Castillo was claimed by the Giants off of waivers. I'm not pretending that he is a long term replacement for BROB if he is traded, but if nothing he would have been a decent, low cost, short term replacement who has played SS and 2B in the past. He almost certainly would be as good as anybody who will play either of those positions this year.

[Boy Howdy]

Can you show us where 2nd basemen have been involved in July deadline trades of any magnitude?

These are hardly all deals of "any magnitude", but I looked at all July trades involving All-Star middle infielders (SS & 2B) from the last five seasons (2003-2007). There were 8 of them.

The New York Mets traded Roberto Alomar and cash to the Chicago White Sox for Edwin Almonte, Royce Ring, and Andrew Salvo (minors).

The Pittsburgh Pirates traded Aramis Ramirez, Kenny Lofton, and cash to the Chicago Cubs for a player to be named later, Jose Hernandez, and Matt Bruback (minors). The Chicago Cubs sent Bobby Hill (August 15, 2003) to the Pittsburgh Pirates to complete the trade.

As part of a 4-team trade: The Boston Red Sox sent Nomar Garciaparra and Matt Murton to the Chicago Cubs. The Minnesota Twins sent Doug Mientkiewicz to the Boston Red Sox. The Montreal Expos sent Orlando Cabrera to the Boston Red Sox. The Chicago Cubs sent Brendan Harris, Alex Gonzalez, and Francis Beltran to the Montreal Expos. The Chicago Cubs sent Justin Jones (minors) to the Minnesota Twins.

The Washington Nationals traded Gary Majewski, Royce Clayton, Bill Bray, Brendan Harris, and Daryl Thompson (minors) to the Cincinnati Reds for Austin Kearns, Felipe Lopez, and Ryan Wagner.

The St. Louis Cardinals traded Hector Luna to the Cleveland Indians for Ron Belliard.

The Los Angeles Dodgers traded Cesar Izturis to the Chicago Cubs for Greg Maddux.

The Pittsburgh Pirates traded PTBNL to the Chicago Cubs for Cesar Izturis and cash.

The New York Mets traded Drew Butera (minors) and Dustin Martin (minors) to the Minnesota Twins for Luis Castillo

[glorydays]

I contemplated starting a new thread with this one but didn't think it was significant enough so I am putting it here.

According to MLBTR, The Marlins Jose Castillo was claimed by the Giants off of waivers. I'm not pretending that he is a long term replacement for BROB if he is traded, but if nothing he would have been a decent, low cost, short term replacement who has played SS and 2B in the past. He almost certainly would be as good as anybody who will play either of those positions this year.

And, Trembley has stated he needs a back-up infielder so if nothing else he is the utility guy we are looking for.

[Cubsfan]

These are hardly all deals of "any magnitude", but I looked at all July trades involving All-Star middle infielders (SS & 2B) from the last five seasons (2003-2007). There were 8 of them.

The New York Mets traded Roberto Alomar and cash to the Chicago White Sox for Edwin Almonte, Royce Ring, and Andrew Salvo (minors).

The Pittsburgh Pirates traded Aramis Ramirez, Kenny Lofton, and cash to the Chicago Cubs for a player to be named later, Jose Hernandez, and Matt Bruback (minors). The Chicago Cubs sent Bobby Hill (August 15, 2003) to the Pittsburgh Pirates to complete the trade.

As part of a 4-team trade: The Boston Red Sox sent Nomar Garciaparra and Matt Murton to the Chicago Cubs. The Minnesota Twins sent Doug Mientkiewicz to the Boston Red Sox. The Montreal Expos sent Orlando Cabrera to the Boston Red Sox. The Chicago Cubs sent Brendan Harris, Alex Gonzalez, and Francis Beltran to the Montreal Expos. The Chicago Cubs sent Justin Jones (minors) to the Minnesota Twins.

The Washington Nationals traded Gary Majewski, Royce Clayton, Bill Bray, Brendan Harris, and Daryl Thompson (minors) to the Cincinnati Reds for Austin Kearns, Felipe Lopez, and Ryan Wagner.

The St. Louis Cardinals traded Hector Luna to the Cleveland Indians for Ron Belliard.

The Los Angeles Dodgers traded Cesar Izturis to the Chicago Cubs for Greg Maddux.

The Pittsburgh Pirates traded PTBNL to the Chicago Cubs for Cesar Izturis and cash.

The New York Mets traded Drew Butera (minors) and Dustin Martin (minors) to the Minnesota Twins for Luis Castillo

First, SS and 2B are valued quite differently in the baseball world, so you shouldn't lump them together. The two 2B names that stand out (Alomar and Castillo) were both salary dumps. Most of the other names were SS or players that certainly couldn't be considered stars.

[Number5]

It amazes me that some Cub fans present the obvious fact that teams rarely trade a player with Roberts' skill set with 2 years remaining on his contract as somehow supporting their contention that the rumored Cubs' offer is as good as it gets.

Sorry, but that dog don't hunt.

Roberts salary is not an issue. He is certainly not a clubhouse problem, and is well liked and respected by the front office and ownership. He is a fan favorite and has been a true asset to the Baltimore community. He has two years remaining on his contract and is only 30 years old. On top of all that, he's a darn good player.

The Orioles don't need to trade Roberts by any means. It isn't even entirely accurate to say they want to trade him. Fact is they have made it clear that they are willing to trade him if, and only if, they can get a package in return that would in all likelihood have a real positive impact on the team's rebuilding effort.

The thought that the Orioles will be unloading Roberts for the best offer is, quite simply, mistaken. Everything that McPhail has said and done has supported his statement after Bedard was traded that the Orioles would be looking for quality over quantity in any trade, since the quantity needs were met pretty well by the Tejada and Bedard trades.

[coe76]

First of all, IMO, I don't think Roberts gets traded at this late date. If it was going to happen I think it would have happened last weekend. That would have given both teams time to asimilate the new players in before the start of the regular season. Since it has not happened, I think it is really too late, unless AM gets an offer he really cannot refuse.

Second, with all due respect to the Cubs fans who post here, both positively and negatively, I just do not see a can't refuse offer coming from the Cubs. Unless the names get changed of the proposed players in the deal, I think it is fairly easy for AM to turn them down or try to wait them out. I know the Cubs fans feel they might be giving up too much and the arguments pro and con on the trade details have been posted ad infinitum on OH for weeks/months. Bottom line is, if the proposed Cubs offer was enough, the deal would have been made. AM proved with the Tejada trade he can move quickly. Bedard took forever and a day but in the end, his patience paid off. It seems AM will move when he needs to. Kind of like that old phrase, "I am not sure what I want, but I'll know it when I see it" So far he obviously has not seen it. If that means Roberts stays an O, fine. It delays the rebuild a bit but I would rather that than just push him out the dooor for less value than he is worth to us.

[Ballgame64]

I was just responding (sarcastically) to the "Believe me" lead-in to the response, hence the smiley face after my comment.

Point is, no matter when (if) he is traded, it won't happen unless AM is happy with the return and we get at least a player or two and we believe can be major contributors to our long term success - for the most part, we hearing names of utility level players (AAAA). Show me the "Adam Jones" and "George Sherrill" in any of the speculated Cubs offers. There has been a lot of quantity speculated, but no high-level immediate contributors to build around.

Show me a #1 or 2 starting pitcher the Cubs are getting from the Orioles. To compare trading a #1 type starting pitcher to a 2nd baseman isn't realistic. Now Sherrill is a great talent??? I thought Tillman was the "2nd player" of the trade.

I know the O's don't have to trade Roberts, but why do O's fans insist Roberts should bring back the same talent package as Bedard? In my opinion, that is just not reasonable. If they both hit free agency in 2 years, which one gets the better free agent deal assuming health and expected production? Bedard without a doubt.

[fire83]

Teamsdo not turn thier heads away from a guy they salivated to sign for months now. If the Orioles called tomorrow and said Veal, Gallagher, and Patterson a deal would be done by Wednesday. People say we over value Brian Roberts, but he is clearly in his prime. The entire package makes him one of the best 3-5 second basebman in the game. On top of that is probably one of the best 3-5 leadoff hitters in the came and his defense is above average. The Cubs have one of the 5-10 worst farm systems right now. Getting back 3-4 of their top 10 is not the same as getting back some of the Reds or Yankees top 10. A package of Veal, Gallagher, Patterson, and Ceda would get this deal done. Veal and Ceda are question marks with upside. Veal flat out got rocked last year and the O's already have a lot of minor league guys with "upside". Ceda is going to be a setup man or closer, which would help if he panned out. DCab may eventually find himself in one of those roles and the same goes for Liz. Patterson can't field and most teams like him as an outfeilder. We already have a few good ones. Cedeno could play shortand that is my guess for why the Orioles want him in the package. Gallagher is a solid peice and should project as a #3 starter. As it stands now, the Cubs get an All-Star second baseman who produces at the top of the order and the Orioles get a solid prospect, two guys who will not be up for two years, and a guy that the Cubs could possibly waive. He is a backup infielder on most teams. Trust me, the Cubs are still interested and I this deal gets done. My guess: Gallagher (#3), Veal (#7), Jose Ceda (#9) Sam Fuld (#13) and Cedeno.

As can be expected, O's fans overvalue Roberts and Cubs fans overvalue their prospects. However, before making random statements regarding farm teams, it would be nice to actually know where the rank. The Cubs are ranked right in the middle of farm teams. One ranking ahs them 15 and the oterh 16th. Not exactly the bottom 5 or 10. IMO there is now way Roberts brings back 3 top 10, a 4th that is the 13th best prospect AND a starting SS. I expect the O's fans to overvalue Roberts, but that is not even close to fair.

[Sports Guy]

As can be expected, O's fans overvalue Roberts and Cubs fans overvalue their prospects. However, before making random statements regarding farm teams, it would be nice to actually know where the rank. The Cubs are ranked right in the middle of farm teams. One ranking ahs them 15 and the oterh 16th. Not exactly the bottom 5 or 10. IMO there is now way Roberts brings back 3 top 10, a 4th that is the 13th best prospect AND a starting SS. I expect the O's fans to overvalue Roberts, but that is not even close to fair.

Just because those prospects rank there in your system doesn't mean they are top guys.

To me knowledge, only Gallagher is a top 100 guy. Ceda may be as well but he is borderline.

You can keep Fuld.

For what is being reported, we have already been offered Ceda, Veal, Cedeno and Gallagher...If that is true, you are totally wrong on what BROb is going to get back in return.

[Harry Carry]

It amazes me that some Cub fans present the obvious fact that teams rarely trade a player with Roberts' skill set with 2 years remaining on his contract as somehow supporting their contention that the rumored Cubs' offer is as good as it gets.

Sorry, but that dog don't hunt.

Roberts salary is not an issue. He is certainly not a clubhouse problem, and is well liked and respected by the front office and ownership. He is a fan favorite and has been a true asset to the Baltimore community. He has two years remaining on his contract and is only 30 years old. On top of all that, he's a darn good player.

The Orioles don't need to trade Roberts by any means. It isn't even entirely accurate to say they want to trade him. Fact is they have made it clear that they are willing to trade him if, and only if, they can get a package in return that would in all likelihood have a real positive impact on the team's rebuilding effort.

The thought that the Orioles will be unloading Roberts for the best offer is, quite simply, mistaken. Everything that McPhail has said and done has supported his statement after Bedard was traded that the Orioles would be looking for quality over quantity in any trade, since the quantity needs were met pretty well by the Tejada and Bedard trades.

The problem is roberts wants to be traded. Go read the article in the Sun today. I think he makes it clear he wants to play for a winner.

[Leitch]

Just because those prospects rank there in your system doesn't mean they are top guys.

To me knowledge, only Gallagher is a top 100 guy. Ceda may be as well but he is borderline.

You can keep Fuld.

For what is being reported, we have already been offered Ceda, Veal, Cedeno and Gallagher...If that is true, you are totally wrong on what BROb is going to get back in return.

Depends on whose top 100. The only Cub in KG's top 100 is Soto.

[fire83]

Just because those prospects rank there in your system doesn't mean they are top guys.

To me knowledge, only Gallagher is a top 100 guy. Ceda may be as well but he is borderline.

You can keep Fuld.

For what is being reported, we have already been offered Ceda, Veal, Cedeno and Gallagher...If that is true, you are totally wrong on what BROb is going to get back in return.

Where is that reported. Last I heard the Cubs FO denied they offered Ceda. I just don't see 3 top prospects and a starting SS. Maybe something cloes to that, but that return is too high, IMO.

Also, the Cubs system is not a bottom 5 farm system.