Would you fire Duquette?

[Redskins Rick]

Hey at least one poster not in denial.

This last place team minus O'day, Chen, Wieters, and Davis can have all the bounce you want from Tillman, Gonzalez, and Gausman and still lose 90 games. Tillman and Gonzalez have track records (they are not that good). We need don't have the budget to sign the quality and quantity of FA's needed to get back to the playoffs.

I only asked if folks thought DD could lead a re-build. I don't, problem is DD and the majority of the posters on this board don't even recognize that it is the only path back to the playoffs for this franchise

Why is it, the majority of posters are in denial, and you are the subject matter expert here on everything?

[DrungoHazewood]

I would take Posey with Vitters, Moskos or anybody else over Wieters and Matusz any day of the week. Posey by himself will end up providing significantly more value than the other two players.

I'm sure you could write a 1000-page thesis on players you would have picked if you'd been able to look at the 2025 Baseball Encyclopedia in 2008.

[Stotle]

Couldn't you say the same thing about Wieters when the Orioles drafted him? He had Boras as his agent and wanted a huge bonus as well. Those demands scared off the Pirates and might have scared off the Cubs as well. The Pirates passing on Wieters actually hurt the Orioles in the long run. They would have much better off with Posey and Detwiler than Wieters and Matusz.

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Because the basis of the exercise was that Baltimore did not want to pony-up to sign Wieters?

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[DrungoHazewood]

Well if we are playing revisionist history then I would have taken Trout over Hobgood!

So there!

It is still September and we are already talking about almost decade old draft decisions by other teams.

Going to be a long, long offseason.

I hate to say it, but stuff like this has already helped focus my attention much more on my kids' sports, Tottenham Hotspur, Hokie Football, the Bundesliga back on Fox, DC United, fixing up my old car, etc. I used to really be into the offseason, but with the overwhelming negativity, the ceaseless talk of destroying the franchise, the near-constant second guessing of reasonable decisions... it's just not enjoyable.

[Stotle]

I don't think you can it is anything close to a lock that the O's would have selected Posey.

Was he even viewed as a lock to stay at catcher?

Yes, he was a lock. Recent convert but he was very good. Also had many potential fallbacks, as was evidenced by that VaTech game where he played each position over the first eight innings then closed it out on the mound.

[theobird]

i

Why is it, the majority of posters are in denial, and you are the subject matter expert here on everything?

He is saying the same things that I have been saying for the last couple of years. Unfortunately, we have been right all along. I do not enjoy being right about this, but you can't change the facts.

I will say it for the umpteenth time, a GM is measured 3 years in to his work. DD has failed as I predicted he would. And yes, I would fire him instantly, but I don't think they will.

[DrungoHazewood]

Anytime you have a core with a 6 win and a 5 win player it can be built around.

Not when you have a GM who is both inept and malicious, and an owner who loves losing!

[24fps]

I hate to say it, but stuff like this has already helped focus my attention much more on my kids' sports, Tottenham Hotspur, Hokie Football, the Bundesliga back on Fox, DC United, fixing up my old car, etc. I used to really be into the offseason, but with the overwhelming negativity, the ceaseless talk of destroying the franchise, the near-constant second guessing of reasonable decisions... it's just not enjoyable.

It certainly isn't. OTOH I'm getting a lot more done at work now.

[Stotle]

Some bounce back won't cut it. They have enough coming off to get a MOR guy. I'd say TOR but I don't have any hopes that they're going after Price. It is the pitching.

Don't forget, hope Yankees come back down to earth and suffer through some injuries/regression, hope Toronoto suffers through some injuries/regression (they get Stroman back in the rotation next year), hope the Red Sox are as bad as they look (I don't believe they are), and hope Tampa stays Tampa and can't score runs.

There have to be improvements and Duquette has to build more flexibility/youth into the roster.

[DrungoHazewood]

i

He is saying the same things that I have been saying for the last couple of years. Unfortunately, we have been right all along. I do not enjoy being right about this, but you can't change the facts.

I will say it for the umpteenth time, a GM is measured 3 years in to his work. DD has failed as I predicted he would. And yes, I would fire him instantly, but I don't think they will.

What? You do realize that the Orioles had the best record in the best division in baseball during DD's first three years on the job, right? I know sports is all about what have you done for me in the last 35 seconds, but really?

[Il BuonO]

Hey at least one poster not in denial.

This last place team minus O'day, Chen, Wieters, and Davis can have all the bounce you want from Tillman, Gonzalez, and Gausman and still lose 90 games. Tillman and Gonzalez have track records (they are not that good). We need don't have the budget to sign the quality and quantity of FA's needed to get back to the playoffs.

I only asked if folks thought DD could lead a re-build. I don't, problem is DD and the majority of the posters on this board don't even recognize that it is the only path back to the playoffs for this franchise

I'm not so sure. They've never done it so 1) It's wishful thinking. 2) A rebuild sans a couple pieces to build around is pointless.

Problem is, I'm not sure the way things are going they can sign Machado. They sure as heck better try. If it doesn't work, move on, but this off season is crucial. I was saying they needed more than a 'little bounce back' from the MOR (or BOR if you prefer) guys they already have and then they need to add to it.

My problem has always been with the lack of planning and poor development at the lower levels. For those on McPhail's bandwagon, he did absolutely nothing to improve the system and Duquette isn't much further ahead.

Sure, rebuild our system wisely but I'd still like to find a way to compete without tearing it down completely. I don't necessarily think it's the only path back to the playoffs.

[theobird]

What? You do realize that the Orioles had the best record in the best division in baseball during DD's first three years on the job, right? I know sports is all about what have you done for me in the last 35 seconds, but really?

And apparently you just don't understand. So here we go again. You can judge a General Manager 3 years after he takes the reigns. Those 3 winning years I credit to Andy MacPhail. This year and going forward, I credit to DD. If Joe Schmoe takes over this offseason and the Orioles win 105 games in 2016, then I will credit DD with that. right. It takes time, several years for a GM to leave his mark on a team. Lets see where we go from here.

[Stotle]

And apparently you just don't understand. So here we go again. You can judge a General Manager 3 years after he takes the reigns. Those 3 winning years I credit to Andy MacPhail. This year and going forward, I credit to DD. If Joe Schmoe takes over this offseason and the Orioles win 105 games in 2016, then I will credit DD with that. right. It takes time, several years for a GM to leave his mark on a team. Lets see where we go from here.

That's arbitrary and weird. Judge a GM on what he does from Day 1 on. I think by year three it's the GMs org, no excuses, but that doesn't mean a GM gets no credit or fault for what happens in years 1 - 3.

If your point is that the org in its current state is 100% on Duquette, I can see making that argument. But you don't get to pretend he wasn't around for years 1 - 3.

[Il BuonO]

Don't forget, hope Yankees come back down to earth and suffer through some injuries/regression, hope Toronoto suffers through some injuries/regression (they get Stroman back in the rotation next year), hope the Red Sox are as bad as they look (I don't believe they are), and hope Tampa stays Tampa and can't score runs.

There have to be improvements and Duquette has to build more flexibility/youth into the roster.

Yeah, I'm ambivalent about his ability to do that.

[bpilktree]

Hey at least one poster not in denial.

This last place team minus O'day, Chen, Wieters, and Davis can have all the bounce you want from Tillman, Gonzalez, and Gausman and still lose 90 games. Tillman and Gonzalez have track records (they are not that good). We need don't have the budget to sign the quality and quantity of FA's needed to get back to the playoffs.

I only asked if folks thought DD could lead a re-build. I don't, problem is DD and the majority of the posters on this board don't even recognize that it is the only path back to the playoffs for this franchise

I am not sure why you say that Tilman and Gonzo are not that good and have a track record showing that. They may have outpitched their numbers some last season but they are still much better then what they have showed this season. The numbers over the years even if you take in their periphils is an ERA around 4 which is a big ddeference then what they are doing this season and an ERA over 5. They may not have ERA's in teh mid 3s but i see no reason based on the previous three years to say that an ERA around 4 is easily possible. Losing Weiters really is not a big deal we did not have him last season and were a first place team without him. This season he has done ok but nothing that Caleb and a guy like Clevenger or a solid backup could not do. You act like we are going to let all our guys go and just play the minor league guys. They will add some players to this current team even if we do not sign our guys there is no way they let them all go and have a payroll in the 70 million range.