Would you fire Duquette?

[DrungoHazewood]

It is September and you are still pining after Miller?

How can you look at this season and come to the conclusion that retaining Miller was worth the 4/36 the Yankees spent?

I get the Cruz stuff, I really do. But Miller?

There are probably more relievers worth Miller's contract than there are 35-year-old DHs worth Cruz'. And Miller's was less money to blow. If you'd put a gun to my head last November and told me to sign one of those guys to the deal they got, I might have taken Miller.

[Can_of_corn]

There are probably more relievers worth Miller's contract than there are 35-year-old DHs worth Cruz'. And Miller's was less money to blow. If you'd put a gun to my head last November and told me to sign one of those guys to the deal they got, I might have taken Miller.

I don't agree. Obviously more money to some degree equals more risk but the potential reward was much higher with Cruz.

The only way a Miller deal made sense at all is if you made him the closer in an attempt to put a lid on Britton's arbitration gains.

Well that or traded Britton.

[SeaBird]

I would not fire Duquette. If they fire him they'd have to pay him. If there is dissention in the FO because of him or there is a situation between him and Showalter what they could do is reassign him elsewhere in the organization.

[sportsfan8703]

It is September and you are still pining after Miller?

How can you look at this season and come to the conclusion that retaining Miller was worth the 4/36 the Yankees spent?

I get the Cruz stuff, I really do. But Miller?

My point is that I expect our FO to keep top quality when we have it. And Miller and Cruz were last year, and Davis is this year. There's only so many of those players in the league. You have to keep your top quality players. That's not asking for a 200 million payroll. That's my point. Not to harp on last off season. But it's still relevant if we will because of CD's impending FA.

[DrungoHazewood]

I don't agree. Obviously more money to some degree equals more risk but the potential reward was much higher with Cruz.

The only way a Miller deal made sense at all is if you made him the closer in an attempt to put a lid on Britton's arbitration gains.

Well that or traded Britton.

Or just use him like they did last September/October (I'm envisioning 7-8th inning work, 80-90 innings in 70-80 games) until his arm falls off and get a couple 2+ win seasons out of him. Of course he probably doesn't sign if you're honest about working him like a draft horse when the Yanks would just tell him he's a 60-inning closer.

[DrungoHazewood]

My point is that I expect our FO to keep top quality when we have it. And Miller and Cruz were last year, and Davis is this year. There's only so many of those players in the league. You have to keep your top quality players. That's not asking for a 200 million payroll. That's my point. Not to harp on last off season. But it's still relevant if we will because of CD's impending FA.

You don't want to keep all your quality, not when it necessarily means bringing in a ton of risk. Even the Yanks have their "no thanks" point, as seen with Cano. And Robertson.

[sportsfan8703]

You don't want to keep all your quality, not when it necessarily means bringing in a ton of risk. Even the Yanks have their "no thanks" point, as seen with Cano. And Robertson.

Ok so that's 2 out of how many players in the last two decades. But let's look at keeping our top talent in that same time span.

Mussina- No

Markakis- Extended, then No

Roberts- Extended

Jones-Extended

Cruz- No

Miller-No

So they let 2, out of so many I can't add it up, leave. While we are 50/50. And that's not counting Chen, O'day,and Davis. MW doesn't qualifiy. Davis is a must resign. If DD can't get that done, I'm not going to be the only really mad O's fan.

[Redskins Rick]

Ok so that's 2 out of how many players in the last two decades. But let's look at keeping our top talent in that same time span.

Mussina- No

Markakis- Extended, then No

Roberts- Extended

Jones-Extended

Cruz- No

Miller-No

So they let 2, out of so many I can't add it up, leave. While we are 50/50. And that's not counting Chen, O'day,and Davis. MW doesn't qualifiy. Davis is a must resign. If DD can't get that done, I'm not going to be the only really mad O's fan.

I suspect that no matter how well or how much DD does in the off-season, there will be some really mad posters that will still be calling for his dead.

[Il BuonO]

The one issue that is rarely discussed regarding Duquette is that fact that the owner gave him a budget to work with. That budget limits his ability to sign big ticket players(fairly or unfairly). He probably couldn't sign Cruz to a 4 year deal for the money he was asking even though to sign a player of his caliber next season would cost much more money.Same thing with Miller. Theres an understandable attempt to vilify Duquette, but lets be honest, he has to work within a budget and not an open checkbook.

Or, maybe Dan could have held back from signing Jimenez. $50 million no? That's quite a big chunk that could have been used right there.

[Stotle]

Or, maybe Dan could have held back from signing Jimenez. $50 million no? That's quite a big chunk that could have been used right there.

Yeah, this is consistently ignored. "Shrug, oh well," for Jimenez signing then "Shrug, doesn't have payroll room, what can you expect?" thereafter. It all matters.

[webbrick2010]

Why do people keep bringing up Ubaldo?

In case you haven't noticed he is presently the ace of our sorry staff, well him & Chen and Chen is going to get more than 50M

Pitching is expensive, Ubaldo is probably about fair value.

We gave 40 M to a SS with an OPS+ 56 and 20 M to DFA's players that was DD big mistakes, not Ubaldo

[Moose Milligan]

No.

Two things:

This is the type of poll you'd see around Sons of Sam Horn or something. Reactionary, OMG WE HAD A BAD SEASON FIRE EVERYONE TRADE EVERYONE type stuff. Let's not remember where we were 5 years ago.

The popular notion here is that DD was "distracted" by the Blue Jays thing last year. If anyone can show proof that'd hold up in the court of law that he "tanked" or "threw" the offseason because he thought he might be going to Toronto, I'd love to hear it. It's easy to assume that because it fits into the narrative that people would like to believe.

Anyway, don't fire Dan, just let him do his thing and see what he can come up with for next season.

[Il BuonO]

Why do people keep bringing up Ubaldo?

In case you haven't noticed he is presently the ace of our sorry staff, well him & Chen and Chen is going to get more than 50M

Pitching is expensive, Ubaldo is probably about fair value.

We gave 40 M to a SS with an OPS+ 56 and 20 M to DFA's players that was DD big mistakes, not Ubaldo

Come on. For what he has provided I would have preferred to pay the minimum which could easily have been done.

[Can_of_corn]

Why do people keep bringing up Ubaldo?

In case you haven't noticed he is presently the ace of our sorry staff, well him & Chen and Chen is going to get more than 50M

Pitching is expensive, Ubaldo is probably about fair value.

We gave 40 M to a SS with an OPS+ 56 and 20 M to DFA's players that was DD big mistakes, not Ubaldo

He's not quite as bad as the other guys is hardly a ringing endorsement.

Look at Ubaldo's stats in the second half, he has been as much to blame as anyone.

[Il BuonO]

He's not quite as bad as the other guys is hardly a ringing endorsement.

Look at Ubaldo's stats in the second half, he has been as much to blame as anyone.

And he was awful last year. Hardly worth the contract he signed. 1 win over two years is no bargain.